Comments on: Defending the liberal arts against the ignorance caucus

By: Historiann

Historiann — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 01:40:03 +0000

It’s a problem. Should we view medical education as a public good or a private acquisition? Clearly it’s both, but what’s the right formula? Rural areas are very underserved in this country.

Although quite frankly, most doctors live right at or above their means. That’s definitely a problem of overconsumption and entitlement, in my view. They could probably pay back their medical debt faster if they didn’t buy a mini-mansion during residency, and a fancy car.

I’ve been told by mortgage brokers that doctors are their favorite clients of all: they make a lot of money, but they spend even more of it.

By: Ellie

Ellie — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:31:57 +0000

>> Engineering, law and medicine are in a better position to pay off debts.

>> Law graduates are not necessarily in a better position to pay off their debts.

The doctors aren’t in such good shape either. They make more money (IF they go into fancy specialties), but they owe a ton of money:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/tackling-the-problem-of-medical-student-debt/

By: quixote

quixote — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:52:32 +0000

California has its own version of “Pathways” called the “Transfer Program.” Different name, but judging by Kate’s linked article, exactly the same sh%t.

I’m not hopeful about mobilizing students against it, though. Fewer requirements, fewer hours, and faster transfer equals less work and less time for students. As an old prof of mine once said, education is the only place where you can give people less than they paid for and they love it.

By: Historiann

Historiann — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:29:30 +0000

Kate–I didn’t mean in my comment about CCs to disparage their contributions to lib arts education. I really appreciate the CC transfer students I work with at my 4-year uni, as I believe they get a better grounding in survey courses than most undergrads who start at my uni get. (Taking a class capped at 25 at the CC, versus intro courses that have 100, 200, or more students in them? For those students who take advantage of the opportunity, there’s no question that the smaller sections are better.)

By: Kate

Kate — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:50:31 +0000

While community colleges do an important service by offering technical degrees, some of us who teach at them also see cc’s an important way to introduce students to the humanities and social sciences. At CUNY, there is fight which is about, among other things, the effort to protect liberal arts at the ccs and the faculty’s say in how those classes will be taught.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/172243/what-cuny-pathways-means-undergraduates

By: Northern Barbarian

Northern Barbarian — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:59:09 +0000

Whenever I hear some politico say that all higher education should be directly job-oriented, I think of the Turkmenboshi (the “head Turkmen,” former president-for-life of Turkmenistan Sapurmurad Niyazov). He gutted Turkmenistan’s Soviet-era universities, saying that engineering and math, as well as his own spiritual opus the “Ruhnama,” were the only subjects worth studying. And you all know how famous Turkmenistan is today!

Since I don’t have a blog or a regular newspaper column, what venues can I use to help promote the value of what we teach? This morning in InsideHigherEd a high school teacher was saying that professors have the duty to protest that “no child left behind” education is really damaging our students. Where do we protest — write to our congresspeople? Run for the school board? Who in this vast bureaucracy should we be talking to?

By: Historiann

Historiann — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 16:18:59 +0000

That’s true–there are a lot of bitter law school grads out there. Then again, I think some of them were reckless in borrowing tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars for sub-par degrees. Whereas if many of them had taken their undergrad studies more seriously and gotten the grades that would have got them into better law schools, they’d have more & better employment options.

By: Western Dave

Western Dave — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 14:38:50 +0000

Koshembos, it’s time to start reading Campos at Lawyers Guns and Money. Law is a dead-end field unless you go to a top 10 school and even then, you still might not be able to pay off your debts.

By: truffula

truffula — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 11:20:16 +0000

Engineering, law and medicine are in a better position to pay off debts. Law graduates are not necessarily in a better position to pay off their debts.

By: Lance

Lance — Mon, 11 Feb 2013 23:58:00 +0000

That is funny – and good. See, I’m from Jersey, where acting like a Teamster is a part of the daily mano-a-mano grind. I could see how it would help on campus, but I’d not thought about operationalizing it in our combat with McCrory and his fellow travelers.