Comments on: A conversation with Chauncey DeVega about guns, masculinity, and the white violent crime epidemic; Gerda Lerner’s life and death; and why I’m okay with skipping the AHA (again!) http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:24:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: Notorious Ph.D. http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1269843 Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:02:38 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1269843 I missed TR, but mainly because I missed most of the panels in favor of walking around the city, camera in hand. And also eating things. Wish you’d been there!

]]>
By: Contingent Cassandra http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1267833 Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:25:49 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1267833 Coming from a literary perspective, I think J. Otto needs to go reread Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man — one pretty good description both of why many groups (in this case, African Americans) found the CP appealing in the early-mid 20th century, and of how/why they eventually became disillusioned. Wright’s Native Son is another good example; it doesn’t get to the disillusionment part, but it isn’t too hard to read between the lines to see the problems as well as the attractions. I’m sure there are other (and better) examples.

]]>
By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1260013 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 21:14:52 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1260013 Can’t wait to read your report! I hope the Dixieland Jazz didn’t put the zap on your brain.

]]>
By: Tenured Radical http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259996 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 20:50:59 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259996 Gosh, I’m swimming in Otto’s festival of facticity. Just back from NOLA and getting ready for a write-up tomorrow, but have to rest now. The Thursday panel was a gas, as were the digital panels, as was hanging with Susan and meeting a lot of young bloggers. I felt at this AHA we were closer than we ever have been to a lot of very senior people being creative about what we need to change, reinforce and activate to expand the public for history in the 21st century. Will also listen to the interviews tomorrow: what an awesome pair you and Chauncey must be!

]]>
By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259961 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 20:28:20 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259961 Take a break, Otto. Clearly, you’re not thinking straight.

]]>
By: J. Otto Pohl http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259915 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 19:59:59 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259915 So Bose praising Hitler because he supported Indian independence is okay? And if not why not? How is it any different than the CPUSA’s slavish devotion to Stalinism even to the point of dropping their opposition to Naziism during 1939-1941 when the USSR was an ally of Nazi Germany? The show trials were not hidden. Many Americans such as Dewey even organized against them by helping Trotsky organize a counter trial in Mexico. But, the CPSU supported every action of the Stalin regime including the mass shootings of 1937-1938 which included a number of loyal Communists such as Bukharin. So, yes joining the CPUSA in the 1930s and 1940s and maintaining membership in it especially after the 1937-38 show trials and 23 August 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was morally equivalent to being a member of the American Nazi Party.

]]>
By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259880 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 19:30:12 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259880 Right. Because everyone who joined the CPUSA in the 1930s and 1940s is just as guilty as Stalin. Gerda Lerner is worse than Hitler.

Making ridiculous and patently false equivalencies isn’t doing your cause any good.

]]>
By: J. Otto Pohl http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259662 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:07:07 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259662 I do not think I missed the point at all. What would you say to an Indian writer who had nothing but praise for Naziism because of its link to their anti-colonial struggle? To portray communism as a good thing because the Soviet government and CPUSA condemned racism in the US against Blacks is not any different. The CPUSA was much more closely linked to the USSR under Stalin than the Indian National Army was to Nazi Germany. The CPUSA was part of an international movement directed from Moscow. Trying to portray this movement as only supporting things like civil rights and feminism in the US and totally ignoring its crimes in the USSR is obscene.

]]>
By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259642 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:56:25 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259642 Otto, once again, you miss the point entirely.

I never said “we should just get over the crimes of Stalin,” etc. My post said that American leftists need to acknowledge that there were CP members in their midst, some of whom foolishly tried to deny the evil of Stalinism. Pretending that the CP wasn’t a part of the American left in the middle of the 20th century is what I’m against. But let’s not compare American Communists with people who were actually responsible for mass murder. Many American Communists were dumb if not dishonest, but it’s hardly a comparable crime.

]]>
By: J. Otto Pohl http://www.historiann.com/2013/01/03/a-conversation-with-chauncey-devega-about-guns-masculinity-and-the-white-violent-crime-epidemic-gerda-lerners-life-and-death-and-why-im-okay-with-skipping-the-aha-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1259590 Sun, 06 Jan 2013 15:12:35 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=20299#comment-1259590 The reason why some people might think that connections with communism is a big deal is because communist governments like the USSR murdered millions of people. Saying that we should just get over the crimes of Stalin because the Cold War is over is extremely insensitive and shows a deep double standard. Nobody would ever say we should get over the crimes of Naziism because WWII is over.

I dare say it is also racially motivated. One reason nobody would ever say we should get over the crimes of Naziism is because one of the chief victims of Nazi crimes were Jews targeted for genocide. People are well aware of this history and hence sensitive to the “assholism” to borrow from your post above of making light of this tragedy. On the other hand Stalin’s victims were politically incorrect peoples like the Volga Germans, Chechens, and Crimean Tatars. So the American left feels justified in being “assholes” when it comes to their suffering.

There is a direct connection between communism and mass murder. There is in fact a direct connection between communism and racially motivated mass murder. So just as in the case of Naziism it is not something we should just get over and only remember the “good things” about. Linking communism to US civil rights without any mention of Stalin’s racially motivated ethnic cleansing is like linking Naziism to the struggle for Indian independence because Hitler supported Bose and the Indian National Army and making no mention of the Holocaust.

]]>