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	<title>Comments on: Everybody knows.</title>
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	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Scamtastic Study Abroad Programs: What to do? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1095468</link>
		<dc:creator>Scamtastic Study Abroad Programs: What to do? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2012 19:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1095468</guid>
		<description>[...] fact, it seems like this is the kind of &#8220;entrepreneurial&#8221; initiative that universities like mine are encoura...!  So long as it doesn&#8217;t cost money or even makes the uni a buck or two, it seems like [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fact, it seems like this is the kind of &#8220;entrepreneurial&#8221; initiative that universities like mine are encoura&#8230;!  So long as it doesn&#8217;t cost money or even makes the uni a buck or two, it seems like [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The money pit. &#171; More or Less Bunk</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1079886</link>
		<dc:creator>The money pit. &#171; More or Less Bunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1079886</guid>
		<description>[...] This post from her was very interesting to me since it led me to two separate and distinct epiphanies. I think it&#8217;s complaining about a mixture of the two sets of administrators: hers and the ones we share in Denver. This point, for example, seems like it&#8217;s particular to her campus: * Departments across the university are offering online classes taught by grad student and adjunct labor in order to fund research and professional travel for their regular faculty and grad students. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post from her was very interesting to me since it led me to two separate and distinct epiphanies. I think it&#8217;s complaining about a mixture of the two sets of administrators: hers and the ones we share in Denver. This point, for example, seems like it&#8217;s particular to her campus: * Departments across the university are offering online classes taught by grad student and adjunct labor in order to fund research and professional travel for their regular faculty and grad students. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Contingent Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078740</link>
		<dc:creator>Contingent Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078740</guid>
		<description>P.S.  The intellectual rights question is a very good one (and I need to ask it; in fact, it&#039;s even more crucial for contingents to ask it, though we may have a harder time doing so).  However, as far as I can tell, it&#039;s not relevant for online classes in many non-humanities disciplines, because departments/programs/faculty members are simply adopting pre-packaged courses -- essentially souped-up textbooks -- created and owned by one of the members of the educational-industrial publishing complex.  It&#039;s probably a question mostly of interest to those in the humanities (and perhaps the more pure/theoretical sciences) -- and yes, we need to ask it.  

Pre-packaged courses also make assessment of some kinds (i.e. assessment of course materials and what they &quot;deliver&quot;) easy, since, like textbooks, they&#039;re created and regularly revised to meet whatever standards are out there (whether or not those standards particularly aid learning).  Of course, if the standards are complicated enough, that will create additional pressure for those of us who prefer to create and regularly revise our own courses to give up and join the army of drones shepherding students through the pre-packaged product (or, I suppose, join the other army of drones creating said product; somehow I doubt the bulk of that work pays, or will eventually pay, much better, or be much more interesting, though I&#039;m sure it will be touted as another &quot;opportunity&quot; for un/underemployed Ph.D.s to use their talents).  

As far as I can tell, the only solution to the problem of not being sure who&#039;s actually taking the class is the one  nicolec mentions: include some exercises administered in some sort of face-to-face testing center, and make them worth a significant amount of the grade.  That&#039;s not ideal for writing classes, but I could make it work (e.g. give them some source materials they haven&#039;t seen before and a basic citation guide but no access to the internet, and require them to write a well-structured essay properly incorporating/citing the materials).  Of course, even that approach isn&#039;t foolproof (witness Ted Kennedy&#039;s adventures as an undergraduate).  Though I realize the value of universities&#039; certifying role, and the need for it not to become totally debased, I&#039;m a bit of a cynic when it comes to impersonation: if students are going to cheat themselves out the education for which they&#039;re paying, I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s my job to prevent them doing so.  

And, from the limited evidence I have (an alumni panel in which I participated at my Ivy-League alma mater a year or so ago), I&#039;d say thefrogprincess is right: the executives at the for-profits (I met two, including a president) espouse an odd combination of idealism, entrepreneurship, and noblesse oblige, and seem to actually believe that they are bringing education to the masses. However, I didn&#039;t get the impression that they were planning to send their own children to their own institutions.  Some of the profits from the for-profits will undoubtedly go to sending junior to hir parents&#039; ivy-covered alma mater, or, alternatively, a SLAC that caters to hir particular needs and interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  The intellectual rights question is a very good one (and I need to ask it; in fact, it&#8217;s even more crucial for contingents to ask it, though we may have a harder time doing so).  However, as far as I can tell, it&#8217;s not relevant for online classes in many non-humanities disciplines, because departments/programs/faculty members are simply adopting pre-packaged courses &#8212; essentially souped-up textbooks &#8212; created and owned by one of the members of the educational-industrial publishing complex.  It&#8217;s probably a question mostly of interest to those in the humanities (and perhaps the more pure/theoretical sciences) &#8212; and yes, we need to ask it.  </p>
<p>Pre-packaged courses also make assessment of some kinds (i.e. assessment of course materials and what they &#8220;deliver&#8221;) easy, since, like textbooks, they&#8217;re created and regularly revised to meet whatever standards are out there (whether or not those standards particularly aid learning).  Of course, if the standards are complicated enough, that will create additional pressure for those of us who prefer to create and regularly revise our own courses to give up and join the army of drones shepherding students through the pre-packaged product (or, I suppose, join the other army of drones creating said product; somehow I doubt the bulk of that work pays, or will eventually pay, much better, or be much more interesting, though I&#8217;m sure it will be touted as another &#8220;opportunity&#8221; for un/underemployed Ph.D.s to use their talents).  </p>
<p>As far as I can tell, the only solution to the problem of not being sure who&#8217;s actually taking the class is the one  nicolec mentions: include some exercises administered in some sort of face-to-face testing center, and make them worth a significant amount of the grade.  That&#8217;s not ideal for writing classes, but I could make it work (e.g. give them some source materials they haven&#8217;t seen before and a basic citation guide but no access to the internet, and require them to write a well-structured essay properly incorporating/citing the materials).  Of course, even that approach isn&#8217;t foolproof (witness Ted Kennedy&#8217;s adventures as an undergraduate).  Though I realize the value of universities&#8217; certifying role, and the need for it not to become totally debased, I&#8217;m a bit of a cynic when it comes to impersonation: if students are going to cheat themselves out the education for which they&#8217;re paying, I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s my job to prevent them doing so.  </p>
<p>And, from the limited evidence I have (an alumni panel in which I participated at my Ivy-League alma mater a year or so ago), I&#8217;d say thefrogprincess is right: the executives at the for-profits (I met two, including a president) espouse an odd combination of idealism, entrepreneurship, and noblesse oblige, and seem to actually believe that they are bringing education to the masses. However, I didn&#8217;t get the impression that they were planning to send their own children to their own institutions.  Some of the profits from the for-profits will undoubtedly go to sending junior to hir parents&#8217; ivy-covered alma mater, or, alternatively, a SLAC that caters to hir particular needs and interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Contingent Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078728</link>
		<dc:creator>Contingent Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 22:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078728</guid>
		<description>Ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh!.  In some ways, this strikes me as just being an extension of what was happening already, at least at my state R2-that-wants-to-be-an-R1 (and develop a &quot;world-class&quot; reputation -- that was actually the board of trustees&#039; stated goal a few years ago).  At least in my department, one effect of winning a 2/2 load for most tenure-track research/teaching/service faculty  about a decade ago (all new hires come in as 2/2, and most mid-career folk have switched, with a few established faculty -- mostly those who&#039;ve spent decades carrying the bulk of the service teaching and department-level service/administrative work, and carrying it well -- choosing to keep their traditional 3/3 loads, and the more modest research expectations that went with them) was a rapid rise in the sort of position I hold: non-tenure track, 4/4 teaching-only load, starting salary about 2/3 of the entry-level TT one (and much slower to rise, not that anybody&#039;s salary is rising much right now).    As the university and department have grown, and especially as the university has been striving for R1 status, inequality among faculty has definitely grown. In fact, TT faculty leaves have gotten even cheaper than they were before, because now the department needs to hire adjuncts to cover 2 classes, rather than 3, per semester of leave.  Service burdens, of course, have gotten heavier; that&#039;s the main place the TT faculty, especially the more conscientious associates, are feeling the pinch, and for those who take good departmental citizenship seriously, it&#039;s canceling out some of the benefits of the reduced load (which is too bad, because several of those people are also among our most exciting scholars).  

My department is also in the process of creating some new Ph.D. programs.  It hasn&#039;t been done thoughtlessly; they&#039;re in quite specific fields for which there is substantial demand outside the academy, and/or in which TT job openings do, in fact, outstrip demand, at least at the moment.  However, in the case of the largest program (rhetoric and composition), the TT jobs which our graduates will fill will probably be at least partially administrative ones, and will involve supervising adjunct and/or grad-student exploited labor,which raises some questions about where the exploited labor is going to come from.  MFAs in writing are one answer; we produce a lot of those (and consider that degree a terminal one, eligible for tenure in TT slots, but also,like the Ph.D.,  nice to see in holders of non-TT slots when accreditation and/or ranking time comes around), and tend to trade graduates back and forth with a couple of other local programs when in comes time to hire contingent labor.  I suspect that the rhet/comp Ph.D.s may eventually end up in a similar position, with the expectation that they&#039;ll have tenure-track jobs available well into the future another example of bubble-think.  While at the moment our Ph.D.s in rhet and comp may indeed go out into TT jobs that involve supervising adjuncts and/or other grad students, at some point those positions are going to be filled, mostly with relatively young people, but the university will still need grad students to teach classes (and the faculty our program and others have hired will need students to teach -- and rhet/comp scholars don&#039;t generally want to teach 4 sections of freshman comp themselves; it gets old after a while, and, besides, it interferes with their research.  Like scholars in other fields, even those who are dedicated to teaching core courses also want to teach advanced undergrads and grad students).  So I suspect that, despite all good intentions, our rhet/comp Ph.D.s will, in a decade or two, be swelling the contingent labor pool.  

The one piece of good news, as you point out, is that students looking for online classes have far fewer geographical constraints than those looking for traditional ones, so the competition among programs will be fiercer.  Maybe market forces will actually work in favor of quality, or at least a more distinct separation between high-quality programs and online diploma-mills?  I&#039;m not going to get my hopes up, but that certainly would be nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh! ugh!.  In some ways, this strikes me as just being an extension of what was happening already, at least at my state R2-that-wants-to-be-an-R1 (and develop a &#8220;world-class&#8221; reputation &#8212; that was actually the board of trustees&#8217; stated goal a few years ago).  At least in my department, one effect of winning a 2/2 load for most tenure-track research/teaching/service faculty  about a decade ago (all new hires come in as 2/2, and most mid-career folk have switched, with a few established faculty &#8212; mostly those who&#8217;ve spent decades carrying the bulk of the service teaching and department-level service/administrative work, and carrying it well &#8212; choosing to keep their traditional 3/3 loads, and the more modest research expectations that went with them) was a rapid rise in the sort of position I hold: non-tenure track, 4/4 teaching-only load, starting salary about 2/3 of the entry-level TT one (and much slower to rise, not that anybody&#8217;s salary is rising much right now).    As the university and department have grown, and especially as the university has been striving for R1 status, inequality among faculty has definitely grown. In fact, TT faculty leaves have gotten even cheaper than they were before, because now the department needs to hire adjuncts to cover 2 classes, rather than 3, per semester of leave.  Service burdens, of course, have gotten heavier; that&#8217;s the main place the TT faculty, especially the more conscientious associates, are feeling the pinch, and for those who take good departmental citizenship seriously, it&#8217;s canceling out some of the benefits of the reduced load (which is too bad, because several of those people are also among our most exciting scholars).  </p>
<p>My department is also in the process of creating some new Ph.D. programs.  It hasn&#8217;t been done thoughtlessly; they&#8217;re in quite specific fields for which there is substantial demand outside the academy, and/or in which TT job openings do, in fact, outstrip demand, at least at the moment.  However, in the case of the largest program (rhetoric and composition), the TT jobs which our graduates will fill will probably be at least partially administrative ones, and will involve supervising adjunct and/or grad-student exploited labor,which raises some questions about where the exploited labor is going to come from.  MFAs in writing are one answer; we produce a lot of those (and consider that degree a terminal one, eligible for tenure in TT slots, but also,like the Ph.D.,  nice to see in holders of non-TT slots when accreditation and/or ranking time comes around), and tend to trade graduates back and forth with a couple of other local programs when in comes time to hire contingent labor.  I suspect that the rhet/comp Ph.D.s may eventually end up in a similar position, with the expectation that they&#8217;ll have tenure-track jobs available well into the future another example of bubble-think.  While at the moment our Ph.D.s in rhet and comp may indeed go out into TT jobs that involve supervising adjuncts and/or other grad students, at some point those positions are going to be filled, mostly with relatively young people, but the university will still need grad students to teach classes (and the faculty our program and others have hired will need students to teach &#8212; and rhet/comp scholars don&#8217;t generally want to teach 4 sections of freshman comp themselves; it gets old after a while, and, besides, it interferes with their research.  Like scholars in other fields, even those who are dedicated to teaching core courses also want to teach advanced undergrads and grad students).  So I suspect that, despite all good intentions, our rhet/comp Ph.D.s will, in a decade or two, be swelling the contingent labor pool.  </p>
<p>The one piece of good news, as you point out, is that students looking for online classes have far fewer geographical constraints than those looking for traditional ones, so the competition among programs will be fiercer.  Maybe market forces will actually work in favor of quality, or at least a more distinct separation between high-quality programs and online diploma-mills?  I&#8217;m not going to get my hopes up, but that certainly would be nice.</p>
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		<title>By: MsMcD</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078654</link>
		<dc:creator>MsMcD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 18:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078654</guid>
		<description>Your last point reminded me of a great book- you may enjoy it. Have you ever read A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller? It&#039;s post-apocalyptic novel from the 1950s where a group of monks have tried to preserve all the writing that&#039;s left in the world after society has decided that intellectual pursuits are dangerous. I&#039;m actually assigning it in my Apocalypse class this semester. Which coincidentally is on-line (and I&#039;m tenure-track at a public university).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your last point reminded me of a great book- you may enjoy it. Have you ever read A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller? It&#8217;s post-apocalyptic novel from the 1950s where a group of monks have tried to preserve all the writing that&#8217;s left in the world after society has decided that intellectual pursuits are dangerous. I&#8217;m actually assigning it in my Apocalypse class this semester. Which coincidentally is on-line (and I&#8217;m tenure-track at a public university).</p>
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		<title>By: arbitrista</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078625</link>
		<dc:creator>arbitrista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078625</guid>
		<description>A depressing post, but totally believable. It&#039;s the culmination of trends in education (higher ed and K12) that&#039;ve been going on for decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A depressing post, but totally believable. It&#8217;s the culmination of trends in education (higher ed and K12) that&#8217;ve been going on for decades.</p>
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		<title>By: kimbrulee</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078601</link>
		<dc:creator>kimbrulee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078601</guid>
		<description>I thought &quot;a shocking abrogation of professional and moral values&quot; = &quot;entrepreneurial&quot; these days? As a product and true believer in public education (primary - post-secondary), I only applied to grad programs at public R1s. (Of course, this is if you&#039;d consider a uni that gets the tiniest fraction of its budget from the state and has among the highest out-of-state tuition rates &quot;public.&quot;) But I think you&#039;re right about those elite, private institutions being the last reserve of intellectual values. Heartbreaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought &#8220;a shocking abrogation of professional and moral values&#8221; = &#8220;entrepreneurial&#8221; these days? As a product and true believer in public education (primary &#8211; post-secondary), I only applied to grad programs at public R1s. (Of course, this is if you&#8217;d consider a uni that gets the tiniest fraction of its budget from the state and has among the highest out-of-state tuition rates &#8220;public.&#8221;) But I think you&#8217;re right about those elite, private institutions being the last reserve of intellectual values. Heartbreaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelley</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078588</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078588</guid>
		<description>Yes. Our entire culture is splitting into those at the top (high-level administrators, bankers, etc.) and the rest of us. Although I write, my day job is teaching, and here in California, presidents of universities keep getting phenomenal salaries at the same time that more and more classes for students are being cut.

That&#039;s the way it is now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. Our entire culture is splitting into those at the top (high-level administrators, bankers, etc.) and the rest of us. Although I write, my day job is teaching, and here in California, presidents of universities keep getting phenomenal salaries at the same time that more and more classes for students are being cut.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the way it is now.</p>
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		<title>By: GayProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078587</link>
		<dc:creator>GayProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078587</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s small consolation, but your uni is hardly unique.  The ever-eager-to-slash legislatures have little room for state universities to do anything other than try to compete with the for-profits for every last tuition dollar.  I think that many inside and outside the academy don&#039;t actually realize just how pervasive online classes have become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s small consolation, but your uni is hardly unique.  The ever-eager-to-slash legislatures have little room for state universities to do anything other than try to compete with the for-profits for every last tuition dollar.  I think that many inside and outside the academy don&#8217;t actually realize just how pervasive online classes have become.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/08/23/everybody-knows-2/comment-page-1/#comment-1078428</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=19373#comment-1078428</guid>
		<description>...yes, we are competing with Kaplan et al., I know, they keep telling us. To teach online here you sign paperwork to the effect that the University holds the rights to the &quot;content.&quot;

So, in effect: teach the standard survey and you have signed away your rights to ever teach it anywhere else, ever again ... or so it seems!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;yes, we are competing with Kaplan et al., I know, they keep telling us. To teach online here you sign paperwork to the effect that the University holds the rights to the &#8220;content.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, in effect: teach the standard survey and you have signed away your rights to ever teach it anywhere else, ever again &#8230; or so it seems!!!</p>
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