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	<title>Comments on: If online education is the answer, what&#8217;s the question?</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Jakebnto</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1020545</link>
		<dc:creator>Jakebnto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 19:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1020545</guid>
		<description>The key is in your second paragraph, where you speak of return. You misunderstand the purpose both of &quot;online education and/or for profit universities&quot; and the legislation/policy that encourages same: to whit, the return is measured in how much the business makes, not how well the students are taught or how they do as a tool of production once they actually matriculate.

Those few who DO matriculate.

It&#039;s all about the money. It always is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key is in your second paragraph, where you speak of return. You misunderstand the purpose both of &#8220;online education and/or for profit universities&#8221; and the legislation/policy that encourages same: to whit, the return is measured in how much the business makes, not how well the students are taught or how they do as a tool of production once they actually matriculate.</p>
<p>Those few who DO matriculate.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about the money. It always is.</p>
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		<title>By: My Favorite Mason - Around the Web: The ugly underbelly of coder culture, Used-book stores in the digital age and more [Confessions of a Science Librarian]</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1015085</link>
		<dc:creator>My Favorite Mason - Around the Web: The ugly underbelly of coder culture, Used-book stores in the digital age and more [Confessions of a Science Librarian]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 22:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1015085</guid>
		<description>[...] If online education is the answer, what&#8217;s the question? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If online education is the answer, what&#8217;s the question? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Around the Web: The ugly underbelly of coder culture, Used-book stores in the digital age and more : Confessions of a Science Librarian</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1014900</link>
		<dc:creator>Around the Web: The ugly underbelly of coder culture, Used-book stores in the digital age and more : Confessions of a Science Librarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 15:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1014900</guid>
		<description>[...] If online education is the answer, what&#039;s the question? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If online education is the answer, what&#039;s the question? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ellie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007324</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 00:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007324</guid>
		<description>Not just educrats, Historiann, but also lobbyists. Namely ALEC, the friendly folks who brought you &quot;Stand Your Ground&quot; and Governor Walker: http://www.minnpost.com/learning-curve/2012/03/alec-and-corporate-fingerprints-are-all-over-national-push-online-learning</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not just educrats, Historiann, but also lobbyists. Namely ALEC, the friendly folks who brought you &#8220;Stand Your Ground&#8221; and Governor Walker: <a href="http://www.minnpost.com/learning-curve/2012/03/alec-and-corporate-fingerprints-are-all-over-national-push-online-learning" rel="nofollow">http://www.minnpost.com/learning-curve/2012/03/alec-and-corporate-fingerprints-are-all-over-national-push-online-learning</a></p>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007198</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007198</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, I have a traditional classroom but with an open gradebook so when an assignment isn&#039;t done, a parent knows about it and you can bet it gets turned in pronto when the M gets entered (Ms, for missing, get counted as zeros).  I was dead set against this at first, but it&#039;s worked out really well.  Parents of 9th graders check a lot (once a week), but as kids get older the parents check less (also because the kids have better habits).  It&#039;s also cut way down on parent blowback.  No more &quot;why did my kid get a C?&quot; because it&#039;s right there.  Every freakin&#039; assignment.  

As for the experimentation in K-12, the interesting stuff isn&#039;t happening in the for-profit sector for the most part.  There&#039;s some cool cooperatives that are offering what are basically independent studies opportunities for students by matching faculties with students even if they aren&#039;t on the same campus.  Thus if my Environmental History elective doesn&#039;t fill, in the future I might be able to open it up to students at other independent schools who could participate virtually for parts of it, and work independently for other parts.  More work for me (sort of), but better than taking a pay cut when I&#039;m down a course.  

There&#039;s some other stuff in the pipeline I&#039;ve only heard rumors about so far, but if it works it will be good.  What it won&#039;t be is cheap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, I have a traditional classroom but with an open gradebook so when an assignment isn&#8217;t done, a parent knows about it and you can bet it gets turned in pronto when the M gets entered (Ms, for missing, get counted as zeros).  I was dead set against this at first, but it&#8217;s worked out really well.  Parents of 9th graders check a lot (once a week), but as kids get older the parents check less (also because the kids have better habits).  It&#8217;s also cut way down on parent blowback.  No more &#8220;why did my kid get a C?&#8221; because it&#8217;s right there.  Every freakin&#8217; assignment.  </p>
<p>As for the experimentation in K-12, the interesting stuff isn&#8217;t happening in the for-profit sector for the most part.  There&#8217;s some cool cooperatives that are offering what are basically independent studies opportunities for students by matching faculties with students even if they aren&#8217;t on the same campus.  Thus if my Environmental History elective doesn&#8217;t fill, in the future I might be able to open it up to students at other independent schools who could participate virtually for parts of it, and work independently for other parts.  More work for me (sort of), but better than taking a pay cut when I&#8217;m down a course.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s some other stuff in the pipeline I&#8217;ve only heard rumors about so far, but if it works it will be good.  What it won&#8217;t be is cheap.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007168</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007168</guid>
		<description>Great point, Indyanna:  the kids aren&#039;t (mostly) driving themselves to school.  So, yeah:  5 days of unpaid adult tutoring and chauffering probably does make for an excellent education!  (No $hit!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point, Indyanna:  the kids aren&#8217;t (mostly) driving themselves to school.  So, yeah:  5 days of unpaid adult tutoring and chauffering probably does make for an excellent education!  (No $hit!)</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007162</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007162</guid>
		<description>Tabloid headline in this piece from Middletown, USA:

&quot;PARENTS GET CONSTANT STREAM OF E-MAILS.  FEEL MORE &#039;INVESTED.&#039; INDICTED SPAM BOSS SAYS &#039;Seee?!?&quot; 

How does four days a week in the parking lot, two days a week in the classroom, and three days a week at home add up? Maybe some unauthorized drag racing or truck pulls going on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tabloid headline in this piece from Middletown, USA:</p>
<p>&#8220;PARENTS GET CONSTANT STREAM OF E-MAILS.  FEEL MORE &#8216;INVESTED.&#8217; INDICTED SPAM BOSS SAYS &#8216;Seee?!?&#8221; </p>
<p>How does four days a week in the parking lot, two days a week in the classroom, and three days a week at home add up? Maybe some unauthorized drag racing or truck pulls going on?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007150</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007150</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s shocking--although perhaps not entirely unsurprising--the degree to which these online and reform schemes are drafting on unpaid labor to achieve their &quot;excellence.&quot;  Here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationaljournal.com/features/restoration-calls/in-nothing-we-trust-20120419?print=true&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;discussion of a charter school in Muncie, IN&lt;/a&gt;, and how it works:



&lt;blockquote&gt;At Hoosier, four days a week, the queue of small sedans, SUVs, and trucks waiting to drop off students forms a wide circle around the parking lot. The academy leases space in the unused wing of a Catholic school on the city’s south side. &lt;b&gt;Under its “blended” model, children go to their classrooms two days a week for face-to-face instruction. Three days a week, they work at home with a parent or other adult while connected electronically to the high-tech school. Teachers and coaches meet at least once a month to review each child’s progress.&lt;/b&gt; “Everybody is on the same page all the time,” Whitehead says.

&lt;b&gt;Coordination with parents is a given. “It took me a whole school year to see he wasn’t keeping up” in public school, says Jamie Leffel of her second-grader. Frustrated, she too moved him to Hoosier. What he got there highlights where the public schools have gone wrong.&lt;/b&gt; Hoosier students receive a passport to the digital age: Everyone who qualifies for a free or reduced-price lunch is eligible for a free desktop computer and printer, as well as an Internet stipend. Pupils still need to take government-mandated standardized tests, but the academy’s computer-driven metrics allow teachers and parents to track how well the kids are doing in real time. (They record the grade for every assignment, confirm that work is completed on time, and inform teachers that students need special attention when they can’t exceed 80 percent performance after the first few attempts.) It’s a high-tech education for a high-tech world. Parents get a constant stream of e-mails and, therefore, feel more invested. With Hoosier’s approach, “the partnership with the parent and teacher becomes crucial,” says Melissa DeWitt, the academic director of Hoosier Academies, the parent company based in Indianapolis.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



I guess what public schools &quot;got wrong&quot; is the idea that every child is entitled to a quality, free public education, whether or not she has a parent who can devote three days a week tutoring her!  What would our public schools look like with THAT kind of parental investment and civic engagement?  I guess it&#039;s just easier to pi$$ on the public schools for trying to work with everyone, rather than discriminating against those whose parents don&#039;t have the requisite skills and/or must work for pay all week long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s shocking&#8211;although perhaps not entirely unsurprising&#8211;the degree to which these online and reform schemes are drafting on unpaid labor to achieve their &#8220;excellence.&#8221;  Here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.nationaljournal.com/features/restoration-calls/in-nothing-we-trust-20120419?print=true" rel="nofollow">discussion of a charter school in Muncie, IN</a>, and how it works:</p>
<blockquote><p>At Hoosier, four days a week, the queue of small sedans, SUVs, and trucks waiting to drop off students forms a wide circle around the parking lot. The academy leases space in the unused wing of a Catholic school on the city’s south side. <b>Under its “blended” model, children go to their classrooms two days a week for face-to-face instruction. Three days a week, they work at home with a parent or other adult while connected electronically to the high-tech school. Teachers and coaches meet at least once a month to review each child’s progress.</b> “Everybody is on the same page all the time,” Whitehead says.</p>
<p><b>Coordination with parents is a given. “It took me a whole school year to see he wasn’t keeping up” in public school, says Jamie Leffel of her second-grader. Frustrated, she too moved him to Hoosier. What he got there highlights where the public schools have gone wrong.</b> Hoosier students receive a passport to the digital age: Everyone who qualifies for a free or reduced-price lunch is eligible for a free desktop computer and printer, as well as an Internet stipend. Pupils still need to take government-mandated standardized tests, but the academy’s computer-driven metrics allow teachers and parents to track how well the kids are doing in real time. (They record the grade for every assignment, confirm that work is completed on time, and inform teachers that students need special attention when they can’t exceed 80 percent performance after the first few attempts.) It’s a high-tech education for a high-tech world. Parents get a constant stream of e-mails and, therefore, feel more invested. With Hoosier’s approach, “the partnership with the parent and teacher becomes crucial,” says Melissa DeWitt, the academic director of Hoosier Academies, the parent company based in Indianapolis.</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess what public schools &#8220;got wrong&#8221; is the idea that every child is entitled to a quality, free public education, whether or not she has a parent who can devote three days a week tutoring her!  What would our public schools look like with THAT kind of parental investment and civic engagement?  I guess it&#8217;s just easier to pi$$ on the public schools for trying to work with everyone, rather than discriminating against those whose parents don&#8217;t have the requisite skills and/or must work for pay all week long.</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007135</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007135</guid>
		<description>This &quot;Coursera&quot; enterprise, out of Stanford, is definitely aiming at the high-end universities, and Berkeley, Michigan, Princeton, and Penn have already signed on.  One of my favorite quotes: &quot;Where essays are required, especially in the humanities and social sciences, the system relies on the students themselves to grade their fellow students&#039; work, in effect turning them into teaching assistants. Dr. Koller said that this would actually improve the learning experience.&quot; 

o.k., I guess if a healthy percentage of your admits starting being tutored at three by unemployed Ph.Ds in order to get into the right pre-school in order to get into the right K-12 prep school in order to get into the right Ivy, they can sort of grade each other. (Although I&#039;d watch out for the sharp elbows to be flying in the lanes and the sticks to be high in the corners).  By the time this generation gets old enough to need them, the way things look, they&#039;ll be putting stents into each others&#039; arteries, so they might as well get started now. But will these peer-graders also be angling for the best desks in the t.a. lounge?   

Or wait, maybe these peer graders will unknowingly be grading &quot;product&quot; sent over by Pearson that has been assigned out here in the provinces.  That would put a different twist on the concept of an academic sweat-shop!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This &#8220;Coursera&#8221; enterprise, out of Stanford, is definitely aiming at the high-end universities, and Berkeley, Michigan, Princeton, and Penn have already signed on.  One of my favorite quotes: &#8220;Where essays are required, especially in the humanities and social sciences, the system relies on the students themselves to grade their fellow students&#8217; work, in effect turning them into teaching assistants. Dr. Koller said that this would actually improve the learning experience.&#8221; </p>
<p>o.k., I guess if a healthy percentage of your admits starting being tutored at three by unemployed Ph.Ds in order to get into the right pre-school in order to get into the right K-12 prep school in order to get into the right Ivy, they can sort of grade each other. (Although I&#8217;d watch out for the sharp elbows to be flying in the lanes and the sticks to be high in the corners).  By the time this generation gets old enough to need them, the way things look, they&#8217;ll be putting stents into each others&#8217; arteries, so they might as well get started now. But will these peer-graders also be angling for the best desks in the t.a. lounge?   </p>
<p>Or wait, maybe these peer graders will unknowingly be grading &#8220;product&#8221; sent over by Pearson that has been assigned out here in the provinces.  That would put a different twist on the concept of an academic sweat-shop!</p>
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		<title>By: The Stepford courses. &#171; More or Less Bunk</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/29/if-online-education-is-the-answer-whats-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-1007070</link>
		<dc:creator>The Stepford courses. &#171; More or Less Bunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18705#comment-1007070</guid>
		<description>[...] are always learning and nobody ever, ever cheats. Well, over the weekend, Historiann went and rained on their parade: &#8220;College is just a waste of time and money, and neither students, parents, nor taxpayers are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are always learning and nobody ever, ever cheats. Well, over the weekend, Historiann went and rained on their parade: &#8220;College is just a waste of time and money, and neither students, parents, nor taxpayers are [...]</p>
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