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	<title>Comments on: Torpedoing Titanic-mania</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: squadratomagico</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996936</link>
		<dc:creator>squadratomagico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996936</guid>
		<description>The thing I recall most from 9/11 is the sound that went up from the crowd when the first tower fell. I was watching a live feed, and the unearthly collective moan-shriek was unlike anything I&#039;ve ever heard before or since. All later broadcasts I&#039;ve seen since that first one have had the sound turned down a great deal, or have a narrative track instead of the original sound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I recall most from 9/11 is the sound that went up from the crowd when the first tower fell. I was watching a live feed, and the unearthly collective moan-shriek was unlike anything I&#8217;ve ever heard before or since. All later broadcasts I&#8217;ve seen since that first one have had the sound turned down a great deal, or have a narrative track instead of the original sound.</p>
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		<title>By: Knitting Clio</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996934</link>
		<dc:creator>Knitting Clio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996934</guid>
		<description>Yes, very.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, very.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996921</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996921</guid>
		<description>Wow.  Maybe you should write the novel imagining the reasons for why people decided to take the plunge.  

I think it&#039;s part of that day that even those of us who watched from hundreds of miles away have difficulty thinking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Maybe you should write the novel imagining the reasons for why people decided to take the plunge.  </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s part of that day that even those of us who watched from hundreds of miles away have difficulty thinking about.</p>
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		<title>By: AGR</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996898</link>
		<dc:creator>AGR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996898</guid>
		<description>I was a part of all of that on 9/11.  After making the decision to leave the South Tower after the first strike-- despite what they were telling us to do because flaming debris was flying every where-- I watched, only briefly because I could not take it, people jumping from the buildings. I am fairly certain that there will be stories about what happened that day coming down the pike in the coming decades. We can never know now whether it will be anything like what has happened with the Titanic, but the stories will be compelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a part of all of that on 9/11.  After making the decision to leave the South Tower after the first strike&#8211; despite what they were telling us to do because flaming debris was flying every where&#8211; I watched, only briefly because I could not take it, people jumping from the buildings. I am fairly certain that there will be stories about what happened that day coming down the pike in the coming decades. We can never know now whether it will be anything like what has happened with the Titanic, but the stories will be compelling.</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996878</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996878</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve wondered about the future of 9/11, too, although I&#039;m not totally expecting to be around to see the centennial.  Global culture around catastrophe is in constant flux, as is all culture.  Yesterday I discovered, in a completely different context, that there&#039;s a YouTube site at which people post doctored videos which purport to show horrific things like the view from the inside of the plane as that Air France flight from Brazil to Paris disintegrated during those wild equinoctial storms a couple of summers ago.  Sick by my account, but what won&#039;t the human animal fixate on?  In some ways, I think, the re-creation of visual imagery--in whatever medium--of what could not have been captured contemporaneously with its happening fosters an even more bi-valent fascination.

Does anyone remember that macabre photographic book set in the nineteenth century small-town Midwest, _Wisconsin Death Trip_ (c. 1970s), that originated as a history dissertation at Rutgers?   

I also hope the &quot;future&quot; decides to stop calling it 9/11. I mean, really. If some feckless Quaker kid died in the front yard at the Battle of Brandywine (9/11/1777) that&#039;s supposed to be chopped-liver now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve wondered about the future of 9/11, too, although I&#8217;m not totally expecting to be around to see the centennial.  Global culture around catastrophe is in constant flux, as is all culture.  Yesterday I discovered, in a completely different context, that there&#8217;s a YouTube site at which people post doctored videos which purport to show horrific things like the view from the inside of the plane as that Air France flight from Brazil to Paris disintegrated during those wild equinoctial storms a couple of summers ago.  Sick by my account, but what won&#8217;t the human animal fixate on?  In some ways, I think, the re-creation of visual imagery&#8211;in whatever medium&#8211;of what could not have been captured contemporaneously with its happening fosters an even more bi-valent fascination.</p>
<p>Does anyone remember that macabre photographic book set in the nineteenth century small-town Midwest, _Wisconsin Death Trip_ (c. 1970s), that originated as a history dissertation at Rutgers?   </p>
<p>I also hope the &#8220;future&#8221; decides to stop calling it 9/11. I mean, really. If some feckless Quaker kid died in the front yard at the Battle of Brandywine (9/11/1777) that&#8217;s supposed to be chopped-liver now?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996815</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996815</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting distinction that History Maven notes between history museums and natural history/science museums and their different approaches to the Titantic.  I noticed that when the exhibition came to Denver, it was at the Museum of Science and  Nature, which I thought was a strange choice, but wevs.

I think the Titanic is full of terrific stories, as AGR and Squadratomagico have suggested--there&#039;s the inherent drama of the sinking ship, plus the Virgin and the Dynamo moment of 1912.  I just am not comfortable with a great deal of the commemorative activities this year.

The Titanic reminds me of a more recent horror, one with many fewer survivors&#039; stories, and that is the attacks on the World Trade Center&#039;s Twin Towers, and the decision that many of the stranded made to leap from the windows of the burning building rather than wait for a firey death.  I was mezmerized by the photos of the dying who chose the manner of their own deaths.  Their gestures seemed at once futile and noble, and I have long wondered about how and why they came to their decisions.  Isn&#039;t it interesting that these people&#039;s experiences have largely disappeared from our commemorations and our histories of 9/11/2001?  But I think they&#039;re among the most fascinating. 

Fiction, rather than history, might be the most appropriate venue for exploring these deaths, for the obvious reason that there were no survivors left to tell their own stories.  Maybe this is why they&#039;ve been left out of journalistic narratives, commemorations, and the accompanying photographic records.  Perhaps my discomfort with Titanic-mania is related to this recent event to which so many of us were witness.  

This also makes me think about the role of technology in documentation, and how that makes us remember and commemorate things differently.  I wonder:  if we had video and photographic documentation of the Titanic&#039;s sinking and so many people&#039;s last living moments, would we be so eager to recreate or relive the experience with our commemorations?  How will this shape the public memory and commemorations of 9/11?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting distinction that History Maven notes between history museums and natural history/science museums and their different approaches to the Titantic.  I noticed that when the exhibition came to Denver, it was at the Museum of Science and  Nature, which I thought was a strange choice, but wevs.</p>
<p>I think the Titanic is full of terrific stories, as AGR and Squadratomagico have suggested&#8211;there&#8217;s the inherent drama of the sinking ship, plus the Virgin and the Dynamo moment of 1912.  I just am not comfortable with a great deal of the commemorative activities this year.</p>
<p>The Titanic reminds me of a more recent horror, one with many fewer survivors&#8217; stories, and that is the attacks on the World Trade Center&#8217;s Twin Towers, and the decision that many of the stranded made to leap from the windows of the burning building rather than wait for a firey death.  I was mezmerized by the photos of the dying who chose the manner of their own deaths.  Their gestures seemed at once futile and noble, and I have long wondered about how and why they came to their decisions.  Isn&#8217;t it interesting that these people&#8217;s experiences have largely disappeared from our commemorations and our histories of 9/11/2001?  But I think they&#8217;re among the most fascinating. </p>
<p>Fiction, rather than history, might be the most appropriate venue for exploring these deaths, for the obvious reason that there were no survivors left to tell their own stories.  Maybe this is why they&#8217;ve been left out of journalistic narratives, commemorations, and the accompanying photographic records.  Perhaps my discomfort with Titanic-mania is related to this recent event to which so many of us were witness.  </p>
<p>This also makes me think about the role of technology in documentation, and how that makes us remember and commemorate things differently.  I wonder:  if we had video and photographic documentation of the Titanic&#8217;s sinking and so many people&#8217;s last living moments, would we be so eager to recreate or relive the experience with our commemorations?  How will this shape the public memory and commemorations of 9/11?</p>
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		<title>By: History Maven</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996778</link>
		<dc:creator>History Maven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996778</guid>
		<description>I would agree with Grad Student if the Titanic exhibition I mentioned had been produced with those goals in mind.  And I certainly agree that curiosity is the first step to knowledge about the world and wisdom about our roles in it. One would hope that all historians--and all scholars, for that matter--share that purpose.

Yet, yet, yet. What is the line between sensationalism and historical inquiry into the human condition?  It&#039;s very interesting that the Titanic exhibitions featuring the vicarious interactives I find troubling are not housed in history museums. 

And the sorts of interactives are primarily based on &quot;discovery&quot; rather than assume visitors have any previous knowledge about the Titanic, its builders, its passengers and crew, its sinking, and the passengers&#039; rescuers.      

Take a look at Ballard et al.&#039;s press release (http://www.searesearch.org/category/article-category/newsroom/press-release) about the current enterprise celebrating Ballard (who wanted to make money by being able to charter tours of the Titanic site), and the exhibition&#039;s designers.  One has to look hard to find the history here, but that&#039;s expected.  This is a new iteration of previous exhibitions, but with sponsorship by United Technologies it isn&#039;t surprising that it has a new focus on tech and engineering (and imagineering, since a former Disney designer created the exhibition).  In my reading it appears that the take-away is remembering the exhibition experience.  And there&#039;s nary a historian--public or otherwise--in sight.

The press release: 

Beckoning visitors to “journey to new depths of discovery,” Sea Research Foundation, operator of Mystic Aquarium in Mystic, Conn., today previewed its major new exhibit -- Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below -- located at Mystic Aquarium’s newly renamed Ocean Exploration Center exhibit hall.

The new exhibit, opening to the public on April 12, marks the 100th anniversary of the maiden voyage and loss of the celebrated ocean liner. It is the product of a very special collaboration between famed oceanographic explorer Dr. Robert Ballard, president of Sea Research Foundation’s Institute for Exploration, who led the 1985 expedition that first located and mapped the sunken Titanic, and Tim Delaney, the former top Walt Disney Imagineering designer. Now head of Tim J. Delaney Design, he has collaborated with Dr. Ballard on several projects over the past 30 years. The Ocean Exploration Center renovation and its inaugural Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below exhibit are sponsored by United Technologies Corporation.

Sea Research Foundation President &amp; CEO Dr. Stephen M. Coan has called the renamed Ocean Exploration Center and centenary Titanic exhibit “A unique and important collaboration that will give people a chance to experience Titanic through the eyes of the person who found her, someone recognized as one of the world’s greatest explorers, and through the imagination of a world-renowned exhibit designer. We believe that the Ballard and Delaney team, with the support of one of America’s greatest companies, under the aegis of an organization dedicated to protecting our oceans through research, education and exploration, is an unbeatable formula for public enrichment and inspiration.”

Tim Delaney described the exhibit that he and his team are building as “a very different approach to the Titanic experience, one that taps directly into the excitement of exploration and discovery. Our Titanic exhibit is awe-inspiring and emotional. It is designed to capture the moment of discovery that only access to the actual discoverer’s insight and vision can deliver. Working hand-in-glove with Bob Ballard and Sea Research has enabled us to create something that both adults and children will find thrilling, immersive, interactive, experiential and memorable. Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below takes you there.”

Bringing the legendary vessel’s timeless history to life, Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below captivates minds with a glowing iceberg that is cold to the touch, a bi-level adventure area inspired by Titanic’s engine room, hands-on experiences that unfold Titanic’s lingering mysteries, and modern deep-sea technology that led to Titanic’s eventual discovery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with Grad Student if the Titanic exhibition I mentioned had been produced with those goals in mind.  And I certainly agree that curiosity is the first step to knowledge about the world and wisdom about our roles in it. One would hope that all historians&#8211;and all scholars, for that matter&#8211;share that purpose.</p>
<p>Yet, yet, yet. What is the line between sensationalism and historical inquiry into the human condition?  It&#8217;s very interesting that the Titanic exhibitions featuring the vicarious interactives I find troubling are not housed in history museums. </p>
<p>And the sorts of interactives are primarily based on &#8220;discovery&#8221; rather than assume visitors have any previous knowledge about the Titanic, its builders, its passengers and crew, its sinking, and the passengers&#8217; rescuers.      </p>
<p>Take a look at Ballard et al.&#8217;s press release (<a href="http://www.searesearch.org/category/article-category/newsroom/press-release" rel="nofollow">http://www.searesearch.org/category/article-category/newsroom/press-release</a>) about the current enterprise celebrating Ballard (who wanted to make money by being able to charter tours of the Titanic site), and the exhibition&#8217;s designers.  One has to look hard to find the history here, but that&#8217;s expected.  This is a new iteration of previous exhibitions, but with sponsorship by United Technologies it isn&#8217;t surprising that it has a new focus on tech and engineering (and imagineering, since a former Disney designer created the exhibition).  In my reading it appears that the take-away is remembering the exhibition experience.  And there&#8217;s nary a historian&#8211;public or otherwise&#8211;in sight.</p>
<p>The press release: </p>
<p>Beckoning visitors to “journey to new depths of discovery,” Sea Research Foundation, operator of Mystic Aquarium in Mystic, Conn., today previewed its major new exhibit &#8212; Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below &#8212; located at Mystic Aquarium’s newly renamed Ocean Exploration Center exhibit hall.</p>
<p>The new exhibit, opening to the public on April 12, marks the 100th anniversary of the maiden voyage and loss of the celebrated ocean liner. It is the product of a very special collaboration between famed oceanographic explorer Dr. Robert Ballard, president of Sea Research Foundation’s Institute for Exploration, who led the 1985 expedition that first located and mapped the sunken Titanic, and Tim Delaney, the former top Walt Disney Imagineering designer. Now head of Tim J. Delaney Design, he has collaborated with Dr. Ballard on several projects over the past 30 years. The Ocean Exploration Center renovation and its inaugural Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below exhibit are sponsored by United Technologies Corporation.</p>
<p>Sea Research Foundation President &amp; CEO Dr. Stephen M. Coan has called the renamed Ocean Exploration Center and centenary Titanic exhibit “A unique and important collaboration that will give people a chance to experience Titanic through the eyes of the person who found her, someone recognized as one of the world’s greatest explorers, and through the imagination of a world-renowned exhibit designer. We believe that the Ballard and Delaney team, with the support of one of America’s greatest companies, under the aegis of an organization dedicated to protecting our oceans through research, education and exploration, is an unbeatable formula for public enrichment and inspiration.”</p>
<p>Tim Delaney described the exhibit that he and his team are building as “a very different approach to the Titanic experience, one that taps directly into the excitement of exploration and discovery. Our Titanic exhibit is awe-inspiring and emotional. It is designed to capture the moment of discovery that only access to the actual discoverer’s insight and vision can deliver. Working hand-in-glove with Bob Ballard and Sea Research has enabled us to create something that both adults and children will find thrilling, immersive, interactive, experiential and memorable. Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below takes you there.”</p>
<p>Bringing the legendary vessel’s timeless history to life, Titanic – 12,450 Feet Below captivates minds with a glowing iceberg that is cold to the touch, a bi-level adventure area inspired by Titanic’s engine room, hands-on experiences that unfold Titanic’s lingering mysteries, and modern deep-sea technology that led to Titanic’s eventual discovery.</p>
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		<title>By: AGR</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996531</link>
		<dc:creator>AGR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 04:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996531</guid>
		<description>A dissenting voice.  I have been interested in the Titanic since I saw that preposterous Barbara Stanwyck/Clifton Webb tear jerker of a movie as a teenager. There is just so much there-- the engineering of the ship, the iceberg! --for heaven&#039;s sake,  the issue of class, and most of all, the situation itself. The story  invites people to wonder what they would do in the situation in the most stark way. It&#039;s a ship in the middle of the ocean and it&#039;s going down-- how you would act? You can&#039;t say, &quot;I&#039;d get in my car and drive off&quot; or I&#039;d hop a train.&quot; There is no place to go. If you are in a couple, would you go down together if there was room in lifeboat for only one? What if you had kids back home?  If you are man, would you give put women and children in the lifeboat and stay behind? Old people versus young people. If you are an adult would you get in a lifeboat knowing that kids were still on board? Not many single events in history involve so many different types of people at once in such a compressed point of time when decisions have to be made quickly-- rich people, poor people, males, females, children.  Who got out, why and how? There are other things, as well. It just seems a rich story to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A dissenting voice.  I have been interested in the Titanic since I saw that preposterous Barbara Stanwyck/Clifton Webb tear jerker of a movie as a teenager. There is just so much there&#8211; the engineering of the ship, the iceberg! &#8211;for heaven&#8217;s sake,  the issue of class, and most of all, the situation itself. The story  invites people to wonder what they would do in the situation in the most stark way. It&#8217;s a ship in the middle of the ocean and it&#8217;s going down&#8211; how you would act? You can&#8217;t say, &#8220;I&#8217;d get in my car and drive off&#8221; or I&#8217;d hop a train.&#8221; There is no place to go. If you are in a couple, would you go down together if there was room in lifeboat for only one? What if you had kids back home?  If you are man, would you give put women and children in the lifeboat and stay behind? Old people versus young people. If you are an adult would you get in a lifeboat knowing that kids were still on board? Not many single events in history involve so many different types of people at once in such a compressed point of time when decisions have to be made quickly&#8211; rich people, poor people, males, females, children.  Who got out, why and how? There are other things, as well. It just seems a rich story to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996426</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996426</guid>
		<description>Grad Student:  I&#039;m on the record here as being creeped out by reenacting in general, but I think the Titanic&#039;s brief and not-supposed-to-be-lifewasting journey (as opposed to volunteer soldiers in the Civil War, for example) does make fascination with it creepier in my view.  

YMMV. 

Older Than Dirt:  Connie Willis is apparently a neighbor of mine.  I used to see her working in a coffee shop I used to frequent here.  (But I&#039;ve never read her books--I&#039;m just not a sci-fi person, which is what she seems to be most famous for.  I know that lots of folks are crazy for her books.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grad Student:  I&#8217;m on the record here as being creeped out by reenacting in general, but I think the Titanic&#8217;s brief and not-supposed-to-be-lifewasting journey (as opposed to volunteer soldiers in the Civil War, for example) does make fascination with it creepier in my view.  </p>
<p>YMMV. </p>
<p>Older Than Dirt:  Connie Willis is apparently a neighbor of mine.  I used to see her working in a coffee shop I used to frequent here.  (But I&#8217;ve never read her books&#8211;I&#8217;m just not a sci-fi person, which is what she seems to be most famous for.  I know that lots of folks are crazy for her books.)</p>
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		<title>By: Grad Student</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/04/10/torpedoing-titanic-mania/comment-page-1/#comment-996338</link>
		<dc:creator>Grad Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 20:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18550#comment-996338</guid>
		<description>I suppose I don&#039;t find it any more disturbing, distasteful, or tedious than I do the fascination with any other mass tragedy or disaster. Is it worse than the legions of Civil War reenactments, interest in the Manson family murders, or focus on Jack the Ripper? Not to my mind. Humanity has always had a strong interest in death and tragedy, Titanic mania (at the anniversary of the event) is just one example.

And, unlike History Maven, I didn&#039;t interpret the museums&#039; iceberg demonstrations to be inviting people to mimic dying and capitalizing on that mimicry. I saw those exhibits as an attempt to make the magnitude of human suffering more salient to a public that often has a hard time fathoming the scope of such events. Isn&#039;t that part of the goal of public history work?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose I don&#8217;t find it any more disturbing, distasteful, or tedious than I do the fascination with any other mass tragedy or disaster. Is it worse than the legions of Civil War reenactments, interest in the Manson family murders, or focus on Jack the Ripper? Not to my mind. Humanity has always had a strong interest in death and tragedy, Titanic mania (at the anniversary of the event) is just one example.</p>
<p>And, unlike History Maven, I didn&#8217;t interpret the museums&#8217; iceberg demonstrations to be inviting people to mimic dying and capitalizing on that mimicry. I saw those exhibits as an attempt to make the magnitude of human suffering more salient to a public that often has a hard time fathoming the scope of such events. Isn&#8217;t that part of the goal of public history work?</p>
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