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	<title>Comments on: Tips for toads:  contraception = health care</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Tenured Radical</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-975475</link>
		<dc:creator>Tenured Radical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:37:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I suspect the logical extension of Republican policy will be a mass conversion to Sapphism.  The gals from Roxie&#039;s World and I will be available to run workshops when our country calls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the logical extension of Republican policy will be a mass conversion to Sapphism.  The gals from Roxie&#8217;s World and I will be available to run workshops when our country calls.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-975078</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 02:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>But, saying things that aren&#039;t illnesses shouldn&#039;t be covered leads to not covering anything like health maintenance or wellness, but only [emergencies] - or do I miss something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, saying things that aren&#8217;t illnesses shouldn&#8217;t be covered leads to not covering anything like health maintenance or wellness, but only [emergencies] &#8211; or do I miss something?</p>
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		<title>By: Perpetua</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974776</link>
		<dc:creator>Perpetua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974776</guid>
		<description>H&#039;ann, I agree with your twofold reasons, and I&#039;d like to add a third, which connects to a (mild) critique of something in the Reclusive Leftist article.  The author mentions that contraception is the only medication for normal human activity subject to such uproar/policing.  I would suggest, rather, that the furor over contraception is happening in part because of the success that the right has seen over the restrictions on abortion (which I see in the same category as contraception, even though they are very different things) AND infertility treatment.  Think about how many US insurance companies don&#039;t cover infertility treatments (which are covered in some form in all countries with universal health care).  While there are many arguments that one could make about why these treatments and medications should *not* be covered, the prime one is that infertility is not an illness and therefore shouldn&#039;t be covered.  Ahh, so the same argument that&#039;s being made here about contraception.  Sometimes I think the right tries something out in one arena, and then another, and keep building as they slowly chip away at fundamental rights and shift the discourse in their favor.  You don&#039;t have to be a fundie to accept the argument I cited about IF; one hears it everywhere.  But behind it, at its inception, I think we&#039;d find fundamentalist/Catholic objections to IVF and embryo creation.  (In the same way that I see this legislation cropping up all over the place in favor of ultrasounds before abortions as connected to the many ways women&#039;s autonomy in pregnancy and especially childbirth is completely eroded to the point where the patient&#039;s right to informed consent and refusal almost don&#039;t exist at all, always couched for the benefit of the child.) 

Of course, as Historiann points out, it all goes back to a very old trope of controlling women&#039;s sexuality as a way of preserving (patriarchal) order. And the specific way it&#039;s being done in 21st century America is through the religious right&#039;s uncanny ability to co-opt every discourse related to women&#039;s health and reproduction, usually through the lens of &quot;freedom of religion&quot; which obviously is a concept they understand not at all.  But of course they *do* understand it, and they are deliberately making an effort - largely successful from what I can tell - to change the definition of what that means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H&#8217;ann, I agree with your twofold reasons, and I&#8217;d like to add a third, which connects to a (mild) critique of something in the Reclusive Leftist article.  The author mentions that contraception is the only medication for normal human activity subject to such uproar/policing.  I would suggest, rather, that the furor over contraception is happening in part because of the success that the right has seen over the restrictions on abortion (which I see in the same category as contraception, even though they are very different things) AND infertility treatment.  Think about how many US insurance companies don&#8217;t cover infertility treatments (which are covered in some form in all countries with universal health care).  While there are many arguments that one could make about why these treatments and medications should *not* be covered, the prime one is that infertility is not an illness and therefore shouldn&#8217;t be covered.  Ahh, so the same argument that&#8217;s being made here about contraception.  Sometimes I think the right tries something out in one arena, and then another, and keep building as they slowly chip away at fundamental rights and shift the discourse in their favor.  You don&#8217;t have to be a fundie to accept the argument I cited about IF; one hears it everywhere.  But behind it, at its inception, I think we&#8217;d find fundamentalist/Catholic objections to IVF and embryo creation.  (In the same way that I see this legislation cropping up all over the place in favor of ultrasounds before abortions as connected to the many ways women&#8217;s autonomy in pregnancy and especially childbirth is completely eroded to the point where the patient&#8217;s right to informed consent and refusal almost don&#8217;t exist at all, always couched for the benefit of the child.) </p>
<p>Of course, as Historiann points out, it all goes back to a very old trope of controlling women&#8217;s sexuality as a way of preserving (patriarchal) order. And the specific way it&#8217;s being done in 21st century America is through the religious right&#8217;s uncanny ability to co-opt every discourse related to women&#8217;s health and reproduction, usually through the lens of &#8220;freedom of religion&#8221; which obviously is a concept they understand not at all.  But of course they *do* understand it, and they are deliberately making an effort &#8211; largely successful from what I can tell &#8211; to change the definition of what that means.</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974499</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 03:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974499</guid>
		<description>@ Contingent Cassandra: Thanks for that clarification.  It had occurred to me, too, that word meanings might have shifted over centuries and, without an OED on hand, I scouted around a little electronically without gaining much insight. But some probing on the Burr side makes the case morph intriguingly in an empirical sense.
Burr&#039;s letter to his adult, married daughter Theodosia, replied to a letter apparently sent *jointly* by Theo 
and her friend, Natalie de Lage Sumter, and in it Burr described them as &quot;*two* idle sluts.&quot;  

Natalie de Lage does not even appear in Isenberg&#039;s biography. (The letter was written in 1804, when Burr was Vice President and the women were twenty-something, married, and living in South Carolina). Theodosia&#039;s biographer, Richard N. Cote, describes Natalie as a ten year old aristocrat emigre from Revolutionary France who arrived in New York in 1793 and was given refuge, with her governess, in (one of) Burr&#039;s houses. Natalie and Theodosia grew up to remain best friends for life, although Burr seems to have often chidingly held Natalie up as an unattainable example for Theo to live up to.  Cote describes Burr as having taken a &quot;somewhat lascivious interest&quot; in Natalie, into her adult life.

Cote also treats Burr a lot more harshly than Isenberg does for his apparent compulsive sharing with Theo of the graphic details of his European sexual escapades.
Isenberg, if I understand her account correctly, seems to see this as a refreshing example of a post-puritan (Burr&#039;s grandfather was the legendary theologian Jonathan Edwards), pre-Victorian feminist guy willing to relate to his adult daughter the same way he might have to a son named Theodore. Cote sees a lot more weirdness if not pathology in it, in what sometimes almost seems to be an anachronistic Freudian manner.   

None of this greatly clarifies the meaning of the word &quot;slut&quot; in Burr&#039;s usage, but it jumped out at me in the coincidental context of Limbaugh&#039;s vile savaging of Fluke. The  political cultures of the Early Republic and the (Late Afternoon Empire?) seem interestingly convergent, give or take the availability of Twitter accounts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Contingent Cassandra: Thanks for that clarification.  It had occurred to me, too, that word meanings might have shifted over centuries and, without an OED on hand, I scouted around a little electronically without gaining much insight. But some probing on the Burr side makes the case morph intriguingly in an empirical sense.<br />
Burr&#8217;s letter to his adult, married daughter Theodosia, replied to a letter apparently sent *jointly* by Theo<br />
and her friend, Natalie de Lage Sumter, and in it Burr described them as &#8220;*two* idle sluts.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Natalie de Lage does not even appear in Isenberg&#8217;s biography. (The letter was written in 1804, when Burr was Vice President and the women were twenty-something, married, and living in South Carolina). Theodosia&#8217;s biographer, Richard N. Cote, describes Natalie as a ten year old aristocrat emigre from Revolutionary France who arrived in New York in 1793 and was given refuge, with her governess, in (one of) Burr&#8217;s houses. Natalie and Theodosia grew up to remain best friends for life, although Burr seems to have often chidingly held Natalie up as an unattainable example for Theo to live up to.  Cote describes Burr as having taken a &#8220;somewhat lascivious interest&#8221; in Natalie, into her adult life.</p>
<p>Cote also treats Burr a lot more harshly than Isenberg does for his apparent compulsive sharing with Theo of the graphic details of his European sexual escapades.<br />
Isenberg, if I understand her account correctly, seems to see this as a refreshing example of a post-puritan (Burr&#8217;s grandfather was the legendary theologian Jonathan Edwards), pre-Victorian feminist guy willing to relate to his adult daughter the same way he might have to a son named Theodore. Cote sees a lot more weirdness if not pathology in it, in what sometimes almost seems to be an anachronistic Freudian manner.   </p>
<p>None of this greatly clarifies the meaning of the word &#8220;slut&#8221; in Burr&#8217;s usage, but it jumped out at me in the coincidental context of Limbaugh&#8217;s vile savaging of Fluke. The  political cultures of the Early Republic and the (Late Afternoon Empire?) seem interestingly convergent, give or take the availability of Twitter accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974388</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974388</guid>
		<description>CC--good point about the history of the word &quot;slut.&quot;  In the early modern period it meant slovenly or slatternly in housekeeping/personal grooming.  (And Aaron Burr&#039;s clean clothes were undoubtedly provided by servant or slave women, not by his wife or daughter, but I agree with your larger point, which connects back to the historical meaning of the word &quot;slut!&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CC&#8211;good point about the history of the word &#8220;slut.&#8221;  In the early modern period it meant slovenly or slatternly in housekeeping/personal grooming.  (And Aaron Burr&#8217;s clean clothes were undoubtedly provided by servant or slave women, not by his wife or daughter, but I agree with your larger point, which connects back to the historical meaning of the word &#8220;slut!&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Contingent Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974382</link>
		<dc:creator>Contingent Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974382</guid>
		<description>@Indyanna: I think &quot;slut&quot; had a more generally negative, less specifically sexual, meaning in the late 18th/early 19th century, but I don&#039;t have an OED handy to confirm.  I can&#039;t cite you chapter and verse on this either, but I seem to remember there being a theory that words referring to women become more negative, and more sexualized, over time.  Still, leaving aside the question of the sexual content of the insult, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if Burr were suffering from the usual male puzzlement over what women at home *do* all day (all the while ignoring the miraculous appearance of clean clothes, food, and other such things in his own household).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Indyanna: I think &#8220;slut&#8221; had a more generally negative, less specifically sexual, meaning in the late 18th/early 19th century, but I don&#8217;t have an OED handy to confirm.  I can&#8217;t cite you chapter and verse on this either, but I seem to remember there being a theory that words referring to women become more negative, and more sexualized, over time.  Still, leaving aside the question of the sexual content of the insult, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if Burr were suffering from the usual male puzzlement over what women at home *do* all day (all the while ignoring the miraculous appearance of clean clothes, food, and other such things in his own household).</p>
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		<title>By: Comradde PhysioProffe</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974314</link>
		<dc:creator>Comradde PhysioProffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974314</guid>
		<description>What I am boggled by is thatte Limbaugh is either so fucken ignorant--or thinks his listeners are so fucken ignorant--that he could assert thatte the &lt;i&gt;amount&lt;/i&gt; of sex thatte a woman engages in influences how much itte costs her to purchase birth control pilles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I am boggled by is thatte Limbaugh is either so fucken ignorant&#8211;or thinks his listeners are so fucken ignorant&#8211;that he could assert thatte the <i>amount</i> of sex thatte a woman engages in influences how much itte costs her to purchase birth control pilles.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-974201</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-974201</guid>
		<description>Dr. Crazy:  I hope your students come to see that feminism is not a philosophy useful strictly in the past.  

On that note, I don&#039;t share your surprise that contraception has been dragged into our modern &lt;i&gt;kulturkampfen.&lt;/i&gt;  (I share your disgust, of course, but not your surprise!)  I think the reasons for this are twofold:

1.  Modern conservativism&#039;s real problem with the 1960s was focused on their disgust for the Warren court (all those &quot;impeach Earl Warren&quot; bumperstickers?) and Brown v. Board of education.  It was the movement that was bravely against the Civil Rights movement--just read what the National Review was publishing in the 1950s and 1960s.  But Martin Luther King is now a modern secular saint, and the liberal vision for civil society won out, so now even conservatives have to pretend to have been in favor of MLK &amp; his movement.  Even they can&#039;t own their own true past when it comes to civil rights.  The one part of the 1960s that it&#039;s still OK to be against is feminism, gay liberation, and in general stuff about liberty, sexuality, and the body when it comes to women and gays (principally gay marriage, contraception, and abortion.)  To be fair, the school prayer decision was also very energizing for the conservative movement, but we don&#039;t see conservatives continuing to pound on that they way they&#039;re pounding on women&#039;s &amp; gay sexuality issues.

2.  The choice of focusing conservative &lt;i&gt;ressentiment&lt;/i&gt; on women&#039;s bodies and gay bodies has a long and rich history in the modern west.  For example, the one thing that united both European Protestants and Catholics in the Reformation era and the age of religious wars was the fact that if women were less slutty and men were in more control of their own households, everything would be better.  (This is when we see greater prosecution of prostitutes as well as the expulsion of women&#039;s religious orders from Protestant cities and nations.)  We see the same focus on women&#039;s behavior, in particular women&#039;s sexual behavior, around the eras of the American and French Revolutions, too.  Gay panic also has a rich history in the past century in counterrevolutionary periods in recent U.S. history:  against the lavender menace in the 1920s, after WWII when McCarthyism focused on gays as well as communists, etc.

So, the pushback against &lt;i&gt;merely&lt;/i&gt; 46 years of settled law isn&#039;t so surprising when we take the long view.  Of course, that doesn&#039;t mean we shouldn&#039;t be outraged.  My guess is that every generation will have to fight their battles for contraception and other issues pertaining to liberty and women&#039;s sexuality.  It&#039;s interesting to note the timing of all of this:  The &lt;i&gt;Griswold&lt;/i&gt; decision is nearly 47 years old--it&#039;s menopausal.  Fertile women are going to have to pick up the standard and make the arguments all over again.  But then, that&#039;s been one of the major subthemes of this blog over the past four years:  the Groundhog Day nature of women&#039;s history!

LOL&lt;i&gt;*sob*&lt;/i&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Crazy:  I hope your students come to see that feminism is not a philosophy useful strictly in the past.  </p>
<p>On that note, I don&#8217;t share your surprise that contraception has been dragged into our modern <i>kulturkampfen.</i>  (I share your disgust, of course, but not your surprise!)  I think the reasons for this are twofold:</p>
<p>1.  Modern conservativism&#8217;s real problem with the 1960s was focused on their disgust for the Warren court (all those &#8220;impeach Earl Warren&#8221; bumperstickers?) and Brown v. Board of education.  It was the movement that was bravely against the Civil Rights movement&#8211;just read what the National Review was publishing in the 1950s and 1960s.  But Martin Luther King is now a modern secular saint, and the liberal vision for civil society won out, so now even conservatives have to pretend to have been in favor of MLK &#038; his movement.  Even they can&#8217;t own their own true past when it comes to civil rights.  The one part of the 1960s that it&#8217;s still OK to be against is feminism, gay liberation, and in general stuff about liberty, sexuality, and the body when it comes to women and gays (principally gay marriage, contraception, and abortion.)  To be fair, the school prayer decision was also very energizing for the conservative movement, but we don&#8217;t see conservatives continuing to pound on that they way they&#8217;re pounding on women&#8217;s &#038; gay sexuality issues.</p>
<p>2.  The choice of focusing conservative <i>ressentiment</i> on women&#8217;s bodies and gay bodies has a long and rich history in the modern west.  For example, the one thing that united both European Protestants and Catholics in the Reformation era and the age of religious wars was the fact that if women were less slutty and men were in more control of their own households, everything would be better.  (This is when we see greater prosecution of prostitutes as well as the expulsion of women&#8217;s religious orders from Protestant cities and nations.)  We see the same focus on women&#8217;s behavior, in particular women&#8217;s sexual behavior, around the eras of the American and French Revolutions, too.  Gay panic also has a rich history in the past century in counterrevolutionary periods in recent U.S. history:  against the lavender menace in the 1920s, after WWII when McCarthyism focused on gays as well as communists, etc.</p>
<p>So, the pushback against <i>merely</i> 46 years of settled law isn&#8217;t so surprising when we take the long view.  Of course, that doesn&#8217;t mean we shouldn&#8217;t be outraged.  My guess is that every generation will have to fight their battles for contraception and other issues pertaining to liberty and women&#8217;s sexuality.  It&#8217;s interesting to note the timing of all of this:  The <i>Griswold</i> decision is nearly 47 years old&#8211;it&#8217;s menopausal.  Fertile women are going to have to pick up the standard and make the arguments all over again.  But then, that&#8217;s been one of the major subthemes of this blog over the past four years:  the Groundhog Day nature of women&#8217;s history!</p>
<p>LOL<i>*sob*</i>!</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-973941</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 05:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-973941</guid>
		<description>@Crazy well, I think it&#039;s an argument only the utterly unpractical could have.

I&#039;m in an argument elsewhere on whether it would work to just say to Rush et all, yes, I am having a lot of sex with a lot of different guys, deal with it.

Them: to say that would have an effect.

Me: they are so insane that this tactic would just open you up to having more mud slung.

Them: Just keep showing them you don&#039;t take it as mud.

Do you think that would work in reality?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Crazy well, I think it&#8217;s an argument only the utterly unpractical could have.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in an argument elsewhere on whether it would work to just say to Rush et all, yes, I am having a lot of sex with a lot of different guys, deal with it.</p>
<p>Them: to say that would have an effect.</p>
<p>Me: they are so insane that this tactic would just open you up to having more mud slung.</p>
<p>Them: Just keep showing them you don&#8217;t take it as mud.</p>
<p>Do you think that would work in reality?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Crazy</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2012/03/03/tips-for-toads-contraception-health-care/comment-page-1/#comment-973935</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Crazy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 05:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=18199#comment-973935</guid>
		<description>Am I the only person wondering at the fact that this conversation is happening in the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY?  The misogyny doesn&#039;t stun me. but the way that it&#039;s centered on birth control certainly does.  FWIW, I just introduced my undergrads to feminist theory this past week, and clearly I indoctrinated them in satanic and horrifying beliefs (yay me!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I the only person wondering at the fact that this conversation is happening in the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY?  The misogyny doesn&#8217;t stun me. but the way that it&#8217;s centered on birth control certainly does.  FWIW, I just introduced my undergrads to feminist theory this past week, and clearly I indoctrinated them in satanic and horrifying beliefs (yay me!).</p>
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