Comments on: Poetry, history, beauty, and truth: Vendler vs. Dove smackdown http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:08:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: Chris Roberts http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-2/#comment-937185 Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:12:37 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-937185 Poetry is lost to this world. Rejoice! The frontal lobe no longer processes the genre. If you see a bum, give him change. If you come upon a poet reciting a poem, advise him to take his life. “What? Oh, yes of course, Mr. Dickens, ‘Decrease the surplus (poet) population.’ Indeed!” Tea and crumpets at Four, chip, chip, cheerio!

Space aliens abducted T.S. Eliot and urinated celestial puss down his throat, hence, The Waste Land. Robert Frost’s left big toe inspired him to write very badly. Anne Sexton smoked used Tampons driving her to confess. The entire collected poems of poets throughout history are absent one verity and mere to take up space. Poetry, you are now of the Charnel House

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By: 2011: poetry news and online info for poets. « poethead http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-934999 Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:54:35 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-934999 [...] places , although these places are generally  not full of  literary- liggers. Two wonderful editors had a spat, although Irish media coverage of same was void ,empty. I really do wonder if poetry [...]

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By: L. Palmer http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-931541 Fri, 23 Dec 2011 17:59:26 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-931541 I agree with Vendler in large part of her critique of the anthology…and I haven’t glimpsed it once yet, but I have a feeling some of those ‘multicultural’ poems were bad ones: strong on message, short on form. I’m always suspicious of poetry that places too much priority on an ‘agenda’: generally that means the craftsmanship is suffering. Or when someone urges me to read a poem because it’s so ‘honest’. Usually thats a ‘triteness alert’ for me. I was introduced to poetry through writers such as Nikki Giovanni, Sonia Sanchez, Don L. Lee and the like, as a young black teen struggling to identify and put into perspective his role in the world. I read and wrote a lot of angry poems while the black arts poets stared over my shoulder approvingly, much to the bemusement of a white friend of mine who pointed out that I grew up in the priviledged suburbs and the racial resentment didn’t seem to fit my life or rearing. In truth, I was mimicking what kind of poet I thought I was supposed to be. But I have to admit, when I later ran across the work of Merrill, Stevens, Crane, early Auden, Ashbery and particularly the underrated but wonderful Robert Hayden, I realized what poetry could truly be: complex, rich, musical and deeper than merely the banalities of politics, which after a time, fades away. I also begin to feel that because I am a ‘black poet’ doesn’t mean every poem I write must reflect that (incidental) part of who I am; I begin to feel that I had a right (or perhaps an obligation) to pen a poem about a tree, or an osprey in flight, or my impressions on the Lost Generation, etc, and do it in language that needn’t be overly blunt or vulgar or hamhanded. I no longer felt my ‘blackness’ was the essential part of me. Maybe I’m making several points here. Maybe its muddled. In the end, craft must trump ideology in poetry, and that is where, in Vendler’s view most likely, some of Dove’s selections fell short.

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By: 2011: poetry news and online info for poets. « poethead http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-929463 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 12:14:29 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-929463 [...] places , although these places are generally  not full of  literary- liggers. Two wonderful editors had a spat because poetry is important to readers, although Irish media coverage of same was void [...]

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By: Russ http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-927733 Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:59:59 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-927733 “All in one boat, we take our strokes
As one, and make good time, reversed.
“Mur-” is our word, and so is “rum.”
Helen knows who used them first.”

http://www.berfrois.com/2011/12/to-helen-daniel-bosch/

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By: Thomas Brady Scarriet http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-924399 Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:23:55 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-924399 Blither from the Harvard grad who doesn’t know criteria/criterion—excellent!

Vendler has embarrassed herself with her ‘not enough Wallace Stevens’ complaint.

This is all about Wallace Stevens—who went to Harvard, by the way.

Who dares to ask: OK, how good is Stevens, really?

He’s not that good.

I teach my students Plato and Shakespeare and Auden.

I wouldn’t waste a day on Stevens.

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By: Jaime http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-924344 Thu, 15 Dec 2011 14:03:20 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-924344 As a literary historian and critic, I have been following this thread with great interest. The idea that an anthology should promote one particular aesthetic obscures the competing definitions of the literary that have marked twentieth century letters. I like anthologies that have a broad range of literary aesthetics, and allow me to discuss how particular writers’ own definition of the literary marks their writing. But then I don’t think my job is to tell my students who they are supposed to value. I want them to understand a wide range of aesthetic choices, in the hopes that they find something that speaks to them.

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By: Comrade PhysioProf http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-924037 Thu, 15 Dec 2011 00:26:08 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-924037 Pedantic and tiresome?? Moi??

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-923839 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:45 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-923839 You are harping on a comment on a blog, not a submission to a peer-reviewed journal. So, you’re still being pedantic and tiresome.

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By: PhysioProf http://www.historiann.com/2011/12/12/poetry-history-beauty-and-truth-vendler-vs-dove-smackdown/comment-page-1/#comment-923837 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:32:45 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17512#comment-923837 No, it isn’t. “An historian” is just silly orthographic convention. Writing “that criteria” is identical to writing “that historians”. It’s illiterate.

(Now is probably the right time for you to say, “You’ve made your point.” Lolz.)

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