Comments on: 11/22/63, the Warren Commission, and the “torrid atmosphere of political rage in Dallas,” 1963 http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:35:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4 By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-918946 Historiann Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:46:09 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-918946 Zach--I agree with you that it's needless agitprop to try to connect the Tea Party of 2009-2011 to conservative (and pro-segregationist) movements and organizations from 50 years ago. I think the Tea Party has been often rather mindlessly and unfairly accused of racism by some lefties. However, it it manifestly the case that conservativism in the early 1960s was very committed to preserving segregation where it existed & that it was in part a racist movement (the John Birch Society, the Citizens' Councils of America-type groups, and even the National Review-type establishment conservatives, for example.) So while I agree with you that King's connection to a tea party-named group was needlessly provocative, it wasn't inaccurate to identify racial grievances as something at the heart of conservativism in the early 1960s. (Segregation and the continuation of Jim Crow laws was what many grassroots conservative movements were all about before the end of school prayer & the legalization of abortion in the 1960s-1973. That's what all of those Impeach Earl Warren bumperstickers were about--the Brown v. Board of ed case in 1954!) Zach–I agree with you that it’s needless agitprop to try to connect the Tea Party of 2009-2011 to conservative (and pro-segregationist) movements and organizations from 50 years ago. I think the Tea Party has been often rather mindlessly and unfairly accused of racism by some lefties.

However, it it manifestly the case that conservativism in the early 1960s was very committed to preserving segregation where it existed & that it was in part a racist movement (the John Birch Society, the Citizens’ Councils of America-type groups, and even the National Review-type establishment conservatives, for example.) So while I agree with you that King’s connection to a tea party-named group was needlessly provocative, it wasn’t inaccurate to identify racial grievances as something at the heart of conservativism in the early 1960s.

(Segregation and the continuation of Jim Crow laws was what many grassroots conservative movements were all about before the end of school prayer & the legalization of abortion in the 1960s-1973. That’s what all of those Impeach Earl Warren bumperstickers were about–the Brown v. Board of ed case in 1954!)

]]> By: Zach http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-918904 Zach Thu, 08 Dec 2011 00:13:17 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-918904 I just started reading 11/22/63. I have only read one or two of his books. I'm not a "Tea Party" member but lean that way. I got to the part where he describes the ad talking about the "Tea Party Society" saying (paraphrase) "Socialist agree with integration, think about it!) Much of his book, he takes the time to describe the era , settings and thinking of the time. I am not very familiar with this so when I saw he attributed this racist ad with the "The Tea Party Society" very similar in name to The Tea Party I decided to look it up and see if there was more information on it. Well I guess he made it up. Why? He is a fiction writer so I guess that is what he does. Were his other writings in this book stating time period ideas, scenery and products also made up? Why did he decide to create this misleading idea. How many people would take this literally and have their opinion slightly influenced? Well maybe that was the point. I know he does plenty of research on his subject matter, guess he ran out of truthful references. I just started reading 11/22/63. I have only read one or two of his books. I’m not a “Tea Party” member but lean that way. I got to the part where he describes the ad talking about the “Tea Party Society” saying (paraphrase) “Socialist agree with integration, think about it!) Much of his book, he takes the time to describe the era , settings and thinking of the time. I am not very familiar with this so when I saw he attributed this racist ad with the “The Tea Party Society” very similar in name to The Tea Party I decided to look it up and see if there was more information on it. Well I guess he made it up. Why? He is a fiction writer so I guess that is what he does. Were his other writings in this book stating time period ideas, scenery and products also made up? Why did he decide to create this misleading idea. How many people would take this literally and have their opinion slightly influenced? Well maybe that was the point. I know he does plenty of research on his subject matter, guess he ran out of truthful references.

]]> By: Stephen Karlson http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-911670 Stephen Karlson Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:16:15 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-911670 Harshaw: "LBJ achieved in civil rights legislation more than JFK ever proposed." That becomes a Stephen King plot twist. "Medicare/Medicaid was the lasting legacy of the Great Society, which meant both the single biggest reduction in poverty traceable to government programs, but also a major change in family structure." Worked well for the early recipients, but the contingent claims (with or without Part D, whether Part D was a Republican poison pill) over the next fifty years are the single largest component of the U.S. borrowing problems to come, and the Medicare reimbursement formula removed a lot of price competition from medicine. That's really stuff to talk about at my place, not here. Harshaw: “LBJ achieved in civil rights legislation more than JFK ever proposed.” That becomes a Stephen King plot twist. “Medicare/Medicaid was the lasting legacy of the Great Society, which meant both the single biggest reduction in poverty traceable to government programs, but also a major change in family structure.” Worked well for the early recipients, but the contingent claims (with or without Part D, whether Part D was a Republican poison pill) over the next fifty years are the single largest component of the U.S. borrowing problems to come, and the Medicare reimbursement formula removed a lot of price competition from medicine. That’s really stuff to talk about at my place, not here.

]]> By: Z http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-910293 Z Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:08:26 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-910293 P.S. Now this by Peter Dale Scott - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27806 Explains how we moved to a national security state since then and this fascinates me: as superficially or perhaps "socially" we got more liberal (with stuff like gay rights) we were actually moving in this direction. Huxleyan. P.S. Now this by Peter Dale Scott -
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27806

Explains how we moved to a national security state since then and this fascinates me: as superficially or perhaps “socially” we got more liberal (with stuff like gay rights) we were actually moving in this direction. Huxleyan.

]]> By: Z http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-910100 Z Thu, 24 Nov 2011 05:05:43 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-910100 Harshaw: just my non professional memory operating here, but that is what I remember also, esp. re JFK assasination as an inauguration of an era of these. I also think it's wishful thinking that JFK would have scaled back Viet Nam but other than that LBJ was *impressive* for the reasons you state. Side note and gossip: at the LBJ library/museum in Austin they have a telegram from him to Lady Bird's father. Did you know they eloped? I did not. Telegram is from San Antonio and says they are married and will be across the border in Monterey, N.L., Mex. by morning and not to worry! Harshaw: just my non professional memory operating here, but that is what I remember also, esp. re JFK assasination as an inauguration of an era of these. I also think it’s wishful thinking that JFK would have scaled back Viet Nam but other than that LBJ was *impressive* for the reasons you state.

Side note and gossip: at the LBJ library/museum in Austin they have a telegram from him to Lady Bird’s father. Did you know they eloped? I did not. Telegram is from San Antonio and says they are married and will be across the border in Monterey, N.L., Mex. by morning and not to worry!

]]> By: Bill Harshaw http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-909943 Bill Harshaw Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:58:50 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-909943 Karlson: "...achieved only discord....I don’t know how much of that was wishful thinking about the Great Society." Medicare/Medicaid was the lasting legacy of the Great Society, which meant both the single biggest reduction in poverty traceable to government programs, but also a major change in family structure (the aged could live on their own, didn't need care from their daughters). LBJ achieved in civil rights legislation more than JFK ever proposed. I'd toss in another meme here: "the end of innocence" (IMHO America loses its innocence regularly.) Looking back, JFK is the first of the assassinations which marked the 60's. His death preceded the major race riots of 64 and after, not to mention the turmoil of the anti-war movement, and My Lai. So to some, looking back, what preceded 11/22/1963 appears rosy and innocent, while what followed was storm and fury, signifying nothing. Note I've no idea whether there's any support for that in the histories of the era. Karlson: “…achieved only discord….I don’t know how much of that was wishful thinking about the Great Society.” Medicare/Medicaid was the lasting legacy of the Great Society, which meant both the single biggest reduction in poverty traceable to government programs, but also a major change in family structure (the aged could live on their own, didn’t need care from their daughters). LBJ achieved in civil rights legislation more than JFK ever proposed.

I’d toss in another meme here: “the end of innocence” (IMHO America loses its innocence regularly.) Looking back, JFK is the first of the assassinations which marked the 60′s. His death preceded the major race riots of 64 and after, not to mention the turmoil of the anti-war movement, and My Lai. So to some, looking back, what preceded 11/22/1963 appears rosy and innocent, while what followed was storm and fury, signifying nothing. Note I’ve no idea whether there’s any support for that in the histories of the era.

]]> By: Stephen Karlson http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-909885 Stephen Karlson Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:07:40 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-909885 Yes, Z, the perception of many Thinking People was that MrEisenhower wasn't active enough as a president, and Mr Kennedy's <i>vigah</i> was just the tonic. That, and the Kennedy campaign hung both the slow economic growth and the missile gap on the Republicans. Then, his successor attempted too much and achieved only discord. (At the time I started university, the preliminary verdict among historians was that but for Vietnam, Mr Johnson would rank among the greatest of presidents. I don't know how much of that was wishful thinking about the Great Society.) Thus the wish to turn back time (the Silent Generation's version of July 3, 1863, <i>just before</i> Pickett's Charge). But even Stephen King <a href="http://coldspringshops.blogspot.com/2011/11/if-i-could-turn-back-time.html" rel="nofollow">recognizes the more powerful</a> forces at work. Yes, Z, the perception of many Thinking People was that MrEisenhower wasn’t active enough as a president, and Mr Kennedy’s vigah was just the tonic. That, and the Kennedy campaign hung both the slow economic growth and the missile gap on the Republicans. Then, his successor attempted too much and achieved only discord. (At the time I started university, the preliminary verdict among historians was that but for Vietnam, Mr Johnson would rank among the greatest of presidents. I don’t know how much of that was wishful thinking about the Great Society.)

Thus the wish to turn back time (the Silent Generation’s version of July 3, 1863, just before Pickett’s Charge). But even Stephen King recognizes the more powerful forces at work.

]]> By: Z http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-909663 Z Wed, 23 Nov 2011 05:13:40 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-909663 I see: young, not Eisenhower, not Nixon, also not Joe McCarthy, Catholic issue resolved, etc. - I get it, at least sort of. I see: young, not Eisenhower, not Nixon, also not Joe McCarthy, Catholic issue resolved, etc. – I get it, at least sort of.

]]> By: Susan http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-909527 Susan Tue, 22 Nov 2011 23:11:55 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-909527 Well, my first political memory is that my mother took us (aged c. 8, 6, and 18 months) up to 125th St and Park Ave. during the 1960 campaign. All I remember is all the motorcycles. But there was definitely enormous enthusiasm (it was an election rally), and I remember my parents getting up the morning after the election and knowing that Kennedy's election was a good thing. Why? I think they assumed he'd be better than Eisenhower had been, and certainly better than Nixon would be. I don't think particular issues were in the cards, though I can ask my mother tomorrow! The assassination was just shocking, and for a 9 year old, quite terrifying. Well, my first political memory is that my mother took us (aged c. 8, 6, and 18 months) up to 125th St and Park Ave. during the 1960 campaign. All I remember is all the motorcycles. But there was definitely enormous enthusiasm (it was an election rally), and I remember my parents getting up the morning after the election and knowing that Kennedy’s election was a good thing.

Why? I think they assumed he’d be better than Eisenhower had been, and certainly better than Nixon would be. I don’t think particular issues were in the cards, though I can ask my mother tomorrow! The assassination was just shocking, and for a 9 year old, quite terrifying.

]]> By: Indyanna http://www.historiann.com/2011/11/21/112263-the-warren-commission-and-the-torrid-atmosphere-of-political-rage-in-dallas-1963/comment-page-1/#comment-909466 Indyanna Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:14:32 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=17286#comment-909466 I'll try a few less histrionic pre-assassination factors in Kennedy's popularity (not idolization). There was a generational element that preceded even his election, in his appeal to the younger half of the WW II generation, veterans at or below his own rank of Lt., who had *not* been career soldiers in the long run-up to that war, for whom the slick inauguration phrase "torch is passed" summarized a doubtless much more prosaic sensibility. This was amplified by a degree of self-congratulatory satisfaction about the resolution of the "Catholic issue," even, or maybe especially, among non-Catholics. The stylized "touch football on the White House lawn" stuff and advocacy of "50-mile hikes" might seem pre-fabricated now, but it resonated after repeated coronary scares in the Eisenhower terms. The glamorous spouse and cute kids in the White House certainly contributed. And yes, the frisson of possible mass extinction in the Cuban Missile thing definitely changed the whole game. My father, an apolitical protestant from Republican cultural terrain just slightly older than Kennedy was visibly animated into his camp from midway through the primary season on by nothing you could put into a punchy television spot today. (This surprisingly recurred much later in his still-apolitical, seemingly agnostic life, to the point where I retrospectively considered him to have been a "Kennedy-Clinton Republican"). The assassination just added elements of deification that give revisionist history more room to work now. Apropos of which and not much else, the newest addition to the ranks of "instant historians" is Bill O'Reilly (who--not having a t.v.--I surmise to be some kind of a commentator??). He has co-written a supposed boke called _Killing Lincoln_, about which one blurbologist in a huge ad in the NYT yesterday gushed "add historian to Bill O'Reilly's already impressive resume." Anybody can join this club, I guess. I’ll try a few less histrionic pre-assassination factors in Kennedy’s popularity (not idolization). There was a generational element that preceded even his election, in his appeal to the younger half of the WW II generation, veterans at or below his own rank of Lt., who had *not* been career soldiers in the long run-up to that war, for whom the slick inauguration phrase “torch is passed” summarized a doubtless much more prosaic sensibility. This was amplified by a degree of self-congratulatory satisfaction about the resolution of the “Catholic issue,” even, or maybe especially, among non-Catholics. The stylized “touch football on the White House lawn” stuff and advocacy of “50-mile hikes” might seem pre-fabricated now, but it resonated after repeated coronary scares in the Eisenhower terms. The glamorous spouse and cute kids in the White House certainly contributed. And yes, the frisson of possible mass extinction in the Cuban Missile thing definitely changed the whole game.

My father, an apolitical protestant from Republican cultural terrain just slightly older than Kennedy was visibly animated into his camp from midway through the primary season on by nothing you could put into a punchy television spot today. (This surprisingly recurred much later in his still-apolitical, seemingly agnostic life, to the point where I retrospectively considered him to have been a “Kennedy-Clinton Republican”).

The assassination just added elements of deification that give revisionist history more room to work now. Apropos of which and not much else, the newest addition to the ranks of “instant historians” is Bill O’Reilly (who–not having a t.v.–I surmise to be some kind of a commentator??). He has co-written a supposed boke called _Killing Lincoln_, about which one blurbologist in a huge ad in the NYT yesterday gushed “add historian to Bill O’Reilly’s already impressive resume.” Anybody can join this club, I guess.

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