Comments on: Support the troops! http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Wed, 22 May 2013 01:42:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4 By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890859 Historiann Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:28:56 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890859 You've made your point, Emma. You’ve made your point, Emma.

]]> By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890643 Emma Wed, 19 Oct 2011 03:42:52 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890643 I only see one video here. And I see several very personal attacks on me for daring to suggest that maybe we oughtn't mindlessly valorize the "honor" so cherished by the US military and many of its members. I don't need the "honor" Sgt. Thomas relies on and, frankly, the world would be a better place without it. But you'd rather repeat an empty phrase, trading on the veneration thoughtlessly given to veterans, than engage about the substance of the "honor" Sgt. Thomas brings to the table. But, hell, keep talking your way around Sgt. Thomas's actual words and conduct which belie not a thoughtful or liberal response to police brutality, but a dick-swinging hypermasculinity that attacks the cops for not being man enough to go to Iraq and not just mace and arrest innocent people, but kill them and turn them over to torturers. Woot! We certainly need more of that! That's a *real* change of paradigm. You know, I really hope the cops all take heed and run out and join up today! I only see one video here. And I see several very personal attacks on me for daring to suggest that maybe we oughtn’t mindlessly valorize the “honor” so cherished by the US military and many of its members. I don’t need the “honor” Sgt. Thomas relies on and, frankly, the world would be a better place without it.

But you’d rather repeat an empty phrase, trading on the veneration thoughtlessly given to veterans, than engage about the substance of the “honor” Sgt. Thomas brings to the table. But, hell, keep talking your way around Sgt. Thomas’s actual words and conduct which belie not a thoughtful or liberal response to police brutality, but a dick-swinging hypermasculinity that attacks the cops for not being man enough to go to Iraq and not just mace and arrest innocent people, but kill them and turn them over to torturers. Woot! We certainly need more of that! That’s a *real* change of paradigm. You know, I really hope the cops all take heed and run out and join up today!

]]> By: truffula http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890630 truffula Wed, 19 Oct 2011 03:15:51 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890630 If you link through to Corrente you will see two videos, one of this fellow and one of a grey-haired lady engaging in the same kind of discourse with police. I'm pretty sure both are viewed in the same way. Both "pretty powerful" because they chose to stand up and say something in the face of uncertain consequences. That <I>is</I> in my humble opinion, honorable. If you link through to Corrente you will see two videos, one of this fellow and one of a grey-haired lady engaging in the same kind of discourse with police. I’m pretty sure both are viewed in the same way. Both “pretty powerful” because they chose to stand up and say something in the face of uncertain consequences. That is in my humble opinion, honorable.

]]> By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890591 Emma Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:50:44 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890591 Actually, CPP, your point was to be an aggressive, contentless ass. Actually, CPP, your point was to be an aggressive, contentless ass.

]]> By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890590 Emma Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:50:02 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890590 <i>I don’t think Sgt. Thomas speaks for any vets but himself.</i> Yet he's presented as a) speaking for all of us and b) having some specific, special legitimacy, i.e. his words being "pretty powerful stuff". Why? Because he's vet? Because he's a dudely, manly man with "honor" that he whips out on our (assumedly) behalf? Hey, I'm a vet too! When do I get highlighted with my own "pretty powerful stuff"? I don’t think Sgt. Thomas speaks for any vets but himself.

Yet he’s presented as a) speaking for all of us and b) having some specific, special legitimacy, i.e. his words being “pretty powerful stuff”. Why? Because he’s vet? Because he’s a dudely, manly man with “honor” that he whips out on our (assumedly) behalf?

Hey, I’m a vet too! When do I get highlighted with my own “pretty powerful stuff”?

]]> By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890589 Emma Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:45:34 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890589 <i>I have no idea whether the dude is honorable or not. My only point was that neither does Emma, and her assumption is completely ungrounded.</i> Give me a break. I didn't say Sgt. Thomas was without honor. I said what he participated in in Iraq is exactly as dishonorable as what the NYC cops are participating in. His individual participation is exactly as honorable or dishonorable as those cops' participation -- it's the same damn thing. And if you'd get over your reflexive love for dudely manliness upstaging other dudely manliness in a man-off, you might see that, too. I have no idea whether the dude is honorable or not. My only point was that neither does Emma, and her assumption is completely ungrounded.

Give me a break. I didn’t say Sgt. Thomas was without honor. I said what he participated in in Iraq is exactly as dishonorable as what the NYC cops are participating in. His individual participation is exactly as honorable or dishonorable as those cops’ participation — it’s the same damn thing. And if you’d get over your reflexive love for dudely manliness upstaging other dudely manliness in a man-off, you might see that, too.

]]> By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890588 Emma Wed, 19 Oct 2011 00:43:08 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890588 Why the hard-on for on "honor"? I don't care whether you think I have "honor" or not. You're using the word unreflectively and reactively to shut me down. It has no content the way you use it. None. You may as well call me a commie as call me without honor. It's meaningless crap. Now, the way Sgt. Thomas uses it *does* have a very specific meaning, which you all are studiously avoiding. Sgt. Thomas' definition of honor consists of masculinity as achieved and expressed through combat in a war where marines mostly faced unarmed civilians and other persons who, while armed and violent, posed zero actual threat to the U.S. and its citizens. It's an unreflective adherence to being violent when, where, and how directed. It's marines killing 15 civilians in Haditha - for which not a single marine was convicted. It's 7 marines killing an unarmed, disabled civilian near Hamdania. It's taking people out of their houses in the middle of the night, putting them in flexicuffs, with bags over their heads, calling them ragheads, and delivering them up for "interrogations". I know what marine corps honor is and I know what it serves. Do you? Why the hard-on for on “honor”? I don’t care whether you think I have “honor” or not. You’re using the word unreflectively and reactively to shut me down. It has no content the way you use it. None. You may as well call me a commie as call me without honor. It’s meaningless crap.

Now, the way Sgt. Thomas uses it *does* have a very specific meaning, which you all are studiously avoiding. Sgt. Thomas’ definition of honor consists of masculinity as achieved and expressed through combat in a war where marines mostly faced unarmed civilians and other persons who, while armed and violent, posed zero actual threat to the U.S. and its citizens. It’s an unreflective adherence to being violent when, where, and how directed. It’s marines killing 15 civilians in Haditha – for which not a single marine was convicted. It’s 7 marines killing an unarmed, disabled civilian near Hamdania. It’s taking people out of their houses in the middle of the night, putting them in flexicuffs, with bags over their heads, calling them ragheads, and delivering them up for “interrogations”.

I know what marine corps honor is and I know what it serves. Do you?

]]> By: Comrade PhysioProf http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890570 Comrade PhysioProf Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:42:27 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890570 I have no idea whether the dude is honorable or not. My only point was that neither does Emma, and her assumption is completely ungrounded. I have no idea whether the dude is honorable or not. My only point was that neither does Emma, and her assumption is completely ungrounded.

]]> By: truffula http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890563 truffula Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:31:59 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890563 I think I read that video differently than most folks here. I've been in that kind of situation in a few ways and what I see is the police using a nonviolent deescalation tactic. They are letting an angry man say what he needs to say while congregating around him and distancing him from something (I don't know what, you can't see it in the video). We might hope that what he was saying had traction for some of them--given who he is and the better motivations for choosing a police career--and we can suppose they used this tactic because of who he is but those are both conjecture. I think I read that video differently than most folks here. I’ve been in that kind of situation in a few ways and what I see is the police using a nonviolent deescalation tactic. They are letting an angry man say what he needs to say while congregating around him and distancing him from something (I don’t know what, you can’t see it in the video). We might hope that what he was saying had traction for some of them–given who he is and the better motivations for choosing a police career–and we can suppose they used this tactic because of who he is but those are both conjecture.

]]> By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2011/10/17/support-the-troops/comment-page-1/#comment-890549 Historiann Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:57:13 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=16966#comment-890549 I was reminded in this video of the advantages of being an enormous man in confrontational situations. It almost made up for the historical <i>dis</i>advantage of being an enormous <i>black</i> man in confrontations with police officers! I was reminded in this video of the advantages of being an enormous man in confrontational situations. It almost made up for the historical disadvantage of being an enormous black man in confrontations with police officers!

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