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	<title>Comments on: Material culture, feminist activism, and the future of feminism</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Claire K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835489</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 00:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835489</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s an age thing, or not just an age thing.  The idea that young women want a &#039;fun,&#039; pornified feminism probably comes at least in part from a lot of people really wishing that&#039;s the way things were.  In reality there&#039;s a lot of diversity, especially along the lines susurro pointed out. Also, fun feminism in its current incarnation has been around for decades now, so I wonder if there might actually be a bit of push-back and re-radicalization going on among the youngest feminist set (women in their twenties, as opposed to the women in their thirties who are often in charge of these sorts of projects).  That&#039;s the way it is for me and my friends, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s an age thing, or not just an age thing.  The idea that young women want a &#8216;fun,&#8217; pornified feminism probably comes at least in part from a lot of people really wishing that&#8217;s the way things were.  In reality there&#8217;s a lot of diversity, especially along the lines susurro pointed out. Also, fun feminism in its current incarnation has been around for decades now, so I wonder if there might actually be a bit of push-back and re-radicalization going on among the youngest feminist set (women in their twenties, as opposed to the women in their thirties who are often in charge of these sorts of projects).  That&#8217;s the way it is for me and my friends, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: DaisyDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835409</link>
		<dc:creator>DaisyDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835409</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do you srsly think that “being a slut” is what’s going on with the SlutWalks? Really?&lt;/i&gt;

I have no idea.  I am saying I have profound issues with the word, which prevents any participation by me or others who feel like me.  Probably an age thing.  I hate the word slut, which was used against me for the first few decades of my life, and I don&#039;t want anything to do with that word.  The women I have talked to feel the same way.  Are we just weird?   Well, maybe we are.  This is the south, and the word just &lt;i&gt;rankles&lt;/i&gt; among us rednecks, many of whom get called sluts because of the way we look or act.   

But I must second these comments:

susurro:  &lt;i&gt;the slut walks have also been getting push back from women of color and working class, non-college attending, women who point out that the reclamation of certain names, styles of dress, and modes of expression in public space in these and other mainstream actions are only transgressive for those with the privilege to put them on and take them off with limited threat.&lt;/i&gt;

Good point.  This goes to the heart of my hatred of the term and the whole gestalt around it.  Where I come from, once you&#039;re a slut, well, you&#039;re a slut.  (when you&#039;re a jet, you&#039;re a jet all the way)

And what Claire said.  

It&#039;s probably an age thing, as I said... in my day, slut was fightin words.  Get ready to throw down!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do you srsly think that “being a slut” is what’s going on with the SlutWalks? Really?</i></p>
<p>I have no idea.  I am saying I have profound issues with the word, which prevents any participation by me or others who feel like me.  Probably an age thing.  I hate the word slut, which was used against me for the first few decades of my life, and I don&#8217;t want anything to do with that word.  The women I have talked to feel the same way.  Are we just weird?   Well, maybe we are.  This is the south, and the word just <i>rankles</i> among us rednecks, many of whom get called sluts because of the way we look or act.   </p>
<p>But I must second these comments:</p>
<p>susurro:  <i>the slut walks have also been getting push back from women of color and working class, non-college attending, women who point out that the reclamation of certain names, styles of dress, and modes of expression in public space in these and other mainstream actions are only transgressive for those with the privilege to put them on and take them off with limited threat.</i></p>
<p>Good point.  This goes to the heart of my hatred of the term and the whole gestalt around it.  Where I come from, once you&#8217;re a slut, well, you&#8217;re a slut.  (when you&#8217;re a jet, you&#8217;re a jet all the way)</p>
<p>And what Claire said.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably an age thing, as I said&#8230; in my day, slut was fightin words.  Get ready to throw down!</p>
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		<title>By: DaisyDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835402</link>
		<dc:creator>DaisyDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835402</guid>
		<description>Perpetua, I understand what activists say the event is about, I am talking about the way it is &lt;i&gt;read&lt;/i&gt; by the majority.  In this area, very negatively.  The word &quot;slut&quot; doesn&#039;t stand up too well in the south...

&lt;i&gt;(Also, there’s this fabulous little video on feministing by this guy singing a song to the tune of Madonna’s Like a Virgin, with the lyrics “there’s no such thing as virginity” because it’s a made-up patriarchal construct.)&lt;/i&gt;

Actually a lot of lesbian separatists are very proud of virginity... ever heard of Bev Jo?  (Mary Daly?)  To them, it means one is untainted by patriarchy and is therefore considered a positive good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perpetua, I understand what activists say the event is about, I am talking about the way it is <i>read</i> by the majority.  In this area, very negatively.  The word &#8220;slut&#8221; doesn&#8217;t stand up too well in the south&#8230;</p>
<p><i>(Also, there’s this fabulous little video on feministing by this guy singing a song to the tune of Madonna’s Like a Virgin, with the lyrics “there’s no such thing as virginity” because it’s a made-up patriarchal construct.)</i></p>
<p>Actually a lot of lesbian separatists are very proud of virginity&#8230; ever heard of Bev Jo?  (Mary Daly?)  To them, it means one is untainted by patriarchy and is therefore considered a positive good.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835320</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835320</guid>
		<description>Honestly I don&#039;t think we would disagree on the politics involved if we were talking about it in abstract terms.  The question is just which evidence to look at when evaluating the particular example of Slutwalk.  Your giving-them-the-benefit-of-the-doubt approach probably makes a lot of sense given the rarity of popular feminist activism (though, again, plenty of the people involved in the Slutwalks would object to the label &#039;feminist&#039;) but I think there&#039;s enough ickiness floating around in there to call for some criticism as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly I don&#8217;t think we would disagree on the politics involved if we were talking about it in abstract terms.  The question is just which evidence to look at when evaluating the particular example of Slutwalk.  Your giving-them-the-benefit-of-the-doubt approach probably makes a lot of sense given the rarity of popular feminist activism (though, again, plenty of the people involved in the Slutwalks would object to the label &#8216;feminist&#8217;) but I think there&#8217;s enough ickiness floating around in there to call for some criticism as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835319</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 14:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835319</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not about looking at the Slutwalk participants and declaring their outfits, or anything else about them, indecent.  The problem isn&#039;t that I think they&#039;re &quot;slutty&quot; by some objective standard, it&#039;s that many of them think that, though they see it as something to be celebrated instead of as something shameful.  Here is a blog post by one of the founders of the Toronto Slutwalk: http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/being-a-slut-and-getting-pissed-off  It&#039;s actually pretty thoughtful and encouraging, but the author does make clear that she considers herself a slut because she has a lot of sex, not because all women are at risk of being labeled sluts.  She discusses the police officer&#039;s comment as shaming of women who enjoy sex as much as she does (which she implies is unusual), not as rape apologism that retroactively labels all rape victims &quot;sluts.&quot;  That&#039;s a problem because it means we&#039;re still looking at the choices of individual women when discussing rape, albeit in a more positive light, instead of at the way patriarchal violence affects all women as a class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not about looking at the Slutwalk participants and declaring their outfits, or anything else about them, indecent.  The problem isn&#8217;t that I think they&#8217;re &#8220;slutty&#8221; by some objective standard, it&#8217;s that many of them think that, though they see it as something to be celebrated instead of as something shameful.  Here is a blog post by one of the founders of the Toronto Slutwalk: <a href="http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/being-a-slut-and-getting-pissed-off" rel="nofollow">http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/being-a-slut-and-getting-pissed-off</a>  It&#8217;s actually pretty thoughtful and encouraging, but the author does make clear that she considers herself a slut because she has a lot of sex, not because all women are at risk of being labeled sluts.  She discusses the police officer&#8217;s comment as shaming of women who enjoy sex as much as she does (which she implies is unusual), not as rape apologism that retroactively labels all rape victims &#8220;sluts.&#8221;  That&#8217;s a problem because it means we&#8217;re still looking at the choices of individual women when discussing rape, albeit in a more positive light, instead of at the way patriarchal violence affects all women as a class.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835287</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835287</guid>
		<description>But--and I should have asked this a lot earlier:  isn&#039;t anyone here who&#039;s critical of the SlutWalk concept a little concerned about sounding like those critics of the suffragists and rational-dress reformers?  As Valenti notes (and I re-published above):  &quot;[E]choing the criticism of SlutWalk participants today, the media did not take kindly to women wearing pants. The November 1851 issue of International Monthly called the outfits &lt;b&gt;&#039;ridiculous and indecent,&#039;&lt;b&gt; deriding the suffragists as &lt;b&gt;&#039;vulgar women whose inordinate love of notoriety is apt to display itself in ways that induce their exclusion from respectable society.&#039;&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

(Did you miss that part of the post?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But&#8211;and I should have asked this a lot earlier:  isn&#8217;t anyone here who&#8217;s critical of the SlutWalk concept a little concerned about sounding like those critics of the suffragists and rational-dress reformers?  As Valenti notes (and I re-published above):  &#8220;[E]choing the criticism of SlutWalk participants today, the media did not take kindly to women wearing pants. The November 1851 issue of International Monthly called the outfits <b>&#8216;ridiculous and indecent,&#8217;</b><b> deriding the suffragists as </b><b>&#8216;vulgar women whose inordinate love of notoriety is apt to display itself in ways that induce their exclusion from respectable society.&#8217;&#8221;</b></p>
<p>(Did you miss that part of the post?)</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835256</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 11:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835256</guid>
		<description>Mary Catherine--heh!  Good suggestion.  But, I think actually dressing up like a nun could be considered provocative in another way (blasphemy!  I&#039;m not even Catholic.)  Maybe I&#039;ll try to look extra-professory, and wear my glasses instead of contacts?  

From what I understand, dressing provocatively is NOT at all required.  All of the news coverage has said that it&#039;s all kinds of women, although the demographics skew younger (infants and teens to 40s).  I wonder if some of the videos available focus on the provocatively dressed women for all of the reasons you cite.

I don&#039;t wear &quot;mom jeans,&quot; though.  &lt;i&gt;Girlfriend, please.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary Catherine&#8211;heh!  Good suggestion.  But, I think actually dressing up like a nun could be considered provocative in another way (blasphemy!  I&#8217;m not even Catholic.)  Maybe I&#8217;ll try to look extra-professory, and wear my glasses instead of contacts?  </p>
<p>From what I understand, dressing provocatively is NOT at all required.  All of the news coverage has said that it&#8217;s all kinds of women, although the demographics skew younger (infants and teens to 40s).  I wonder if some of the videos available focus on the provocatively dressed women for all of the reasons you cite.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t wear &#8220;mom jeans,&#8221; though.  <i>Girlfriend, please.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Mary Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835118</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jun 2011 03:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835118</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is something that I would certainly participate in–maybe I should look for a Denver SlutWalk?&quot;

If you do, you should consider adopting the costume of an 18th-century Ursuline nun. I&#039;m (sort of) serious: 

I can imagine a walk where you had women of all ages and shapes and sizes, and from many walks of life, dressed in everything from &quot;slutty&quot; nightclub attire to &quot;mom&quot; jeans,  nun&#039;s habits and professional career-woman uniforms and everything in between. &quot;Any woman can be called a &#039;slut&#039;&quot;, would be the message, &quot;and we&#039;re here to challenge that label. It doesn&#039;t matter what a woman is wearing (her night-out-on-the-town bustier or her drop-the-kids-off-at-preschool sweatshirt), it&#039;s not okay to rape her.&quot;

But women marching in (conventionally-coded) &quot;slutty&quot; clothing and calling themselves &quot;sluts&quot; in order to reclaim the term? Sorry, no, but I&#039;m not signing on for this one.

I think I sort of get the &#039;reappropriation of the oppressive label&#039; move in order to rob it of its power to hurt and shame. But that kind of thing is very tricky to pull off; and in many cases, imho, the expected gains are not worth the risks of backlash and of potential further losses (better to propose an alternative term, and, in this case, to demand better training for police officers).

From what I&#039;m seeing and reading, there certainly *is* a &quot;defending the right to be &#039;slutty&#039;&quot; element to these marches (maybe not in the original vision, but that&#039;s how they&#039;re now playing out). And I honestly don&#039;t see how this doesn&#039;t serve to further normalize the prOnification of women and the glorification of PrOn-culture &#039;hottness&#039; as the new standard. &quot;You see?! They&#039;re ALL sluts! Hell, even the feminists are sluts! And, man, some of those little feminist cuties: hawt!&quot; Ugh.

If this the future of feminism, the revolution is over, for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is something that I would certainly participate in–maybe I should look for a Denver SlutWalk?&#8221;</p>
<p>If you do, you should consider adopting the costume of an 18th-century Ursuline nun. I&#8217;m (sort of) serious: </p>
<p>I can imagine a walk where you had women of all ages and shapes and sizes, and from many walks of life, dressed in everything from &#8220;slutty&#8221; nightclub attire to &#8220;mom&#8221; jeans,  nun&#8217;s habits and professional career-woman uniforms and everything in between. &#8220;Any woman can be called a &#8216;slut&#8217;&#8221;, would be the message, &#8220;and we&#8217;re here to challenge that label. It doesn&#8217;t matter what a woman is wearing (her night-out-on-the-town bustier or her drop-the-kids-off-at-preschool sweatshirt), it&#8217;s not okay to rape her.&#8221;</p>
<p>But women marching in (conventionally-coded) &#8220;slutty&#8221; clothing and calling themselves &#8220;sluts&#8221; in order to reclaim the term? Sorry, no, but I&#8217;m not signing on for this one.</p>
<p>I think I sort of get the &#8216;reappropriation of the oppressive label&#8217; move in order to rob it of its power to hurt and shame. But that kind of thing is very tricky to pull off; and in many cases, imho, the expected gains are not worth the risks of backlash and of potential further losses (better to propose an alternative term, and, in this case, to demand better training for police officers).</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;m seeing and reading, there certainly *is* a &#8220;defending the right to be &#8216;slutty&#8217;&#8221; element to these marches (maybe not in the original vision, but that&#8217;s how they&#8217;re now playing out). And I honestly don&#8217;t see how this doesn&#8217;t serve to further normalize the prOnification of women and the glorification of PrOn-culture &#8216;hottness&#8217; as the new standard. &#8220;You see?! They&#8217;re ALL sluts! Hell, even the feminists are sluts! And, man, some of those little feminist cuties: hawt!&#8221; Ugh.</p>
<p>If this the future of feminism, the revolution is over, for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835012</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 22:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835012</guid>
		<description>Troublesome?  Are you serious?  It&#039;s not troublesome to me in the least.  In fact, I&#039;m utterkly in favor of the woman in the video who says she has the right to wear a thong or no underwear at all and see-through tights.  Rock on, more power to her.  I&#039;m not troubled.  I&#039;m stoked!  My argument is that in an age of vastly unequal distributions of wealth, in an age in which health care is denied those unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the job market, in the age of the tea party and all of its assaults against worker&#039;s rights, in an age in which 68% of those defined as homeless actually hold down full time jobs, the issue of what someone wears seems like politics-light.  Now rape is not politics light, but it seems that the SlutWalk &quot;movement&quot; has expanded its reach beyond the issue of rape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troublesome?  Are you serious?  It&#8217;s not troublesome to me in the least.  In fact, I&#8217;m utterkly in favor of the woman in the video who says she has the right to wear a thong or no underwear at all and see-through tights.  Rock on, more power to her.  I&#8217;m not troubled.  I&#8217;m stoked!  My argument is that in an age of vastly unequal distributions of wealth, in an age in which health care is denied those unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the job market, in the age of the tea party and all of its assaults against worker&#8217;s rights, in an age in which 68% of those defined as homeless actually hold down full time jobs, the issue of what someone wears seems like politics-light.  Now rape is not politics light, but it seems that the SlutWalk &#8220;movement&#8221; has expanded its reach beyond the issue of rape.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/06/06/material-culture-feminist-activism-and-the-future-of-feminism/comment-page-1/#comment-835007</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2011 22:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15470#comment-835007</guid>
		<description>Actually, Chris, I think what we&#039;re saying is pretty different.  You&#039;re talking about &quot;self-objectification&quot; and how troublesome it apparently is for you as a man when women make their own choices about their clothing, I&#039;m saying what women wear (or how many people they sleep with, or whatever) has nothing to do with rape yet some of the Slutwalks seem to accept the idea that it does.  (The Slutwalk in my hometown says in its mission statement, &quot;Women should be free to act and dress as any incarnation of the word &#039;slut&#039;—from a person who wears a tight top, or swears, or has casual sexual encounters, to a prostitute—and not be sexually assaulted,&quot; implying that wearing tight tops really does cause sexual assault.)  Anyway, I want to register my strong disagreement with everything you&#039;re saying about the male gaze.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Chris, I think what we&#8217;re saying is pretty different.  You&#8217;re talking about &#8220;self-objectification&#8221; and how troublesome it apparently is for you as a man when women make their own choices about their clothing, I&#8217;m saying what women wear (or how many people they sleep with, or whatever) has nothing to do with rape yet some of the Slutwalks seem to accept the idea that it does.  (The Slutwalk in my hometown says in its mission statement, &#8220;Women should be free to act and dress as any incarnation of the word &#8216;slut&#8217;—from a person who wears a tight top, or swears, or has casual sexual encounters, to a prostitute—and not be sexually assaulted,&#8221; implying that wearing tight tops really does cause sexual assault.)  Anyway, I want to register my strong disagreement with everything you&#8217;re saying about the male gaze.</p>
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