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	<title>Comments on: Should colleges ban fraternities?</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-826044</link>
		<dc:creator>RonF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 May 2011 22:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-826044</guid>
		<description>I belonged to a fraternity back in the early &#039;70&#039;s at my undergraduate school.  There was some partying, definitely.  There was also quite a bit of studying and no violence against women, organized or otherwise.  There was no anti-academic attitudes there, and there was (and still is, if the newsletter I get is to be believed) quite a bit of service work.  Perhaps MIT is not the most typical school, but my guess is that the vast majority of schools tend towards this model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I belonged to a fraternity back in the early &#8217;70&#8242;s at my undergraduate school.  There was some partying, definitely.  There was also quite a bit of studying and no violence against women, organized or otherwise.  There was no anti-academic attitudes there, and there was (and still is, if the newsletter I get is to be believed) quite a bit of service work.  Perhaps MIT is not the most typical school, but my guess is that the vast majority of schools tend towards this model.</p>
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		<title>By: multanemo</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-824248</link>
		<dc:creator>multanemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 19:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-824248</guid>
		<description>Only if they ban sororities too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only if they ban sororities too.</p>
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		<title>By: J Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-824108</link>
		<dc:creator>J Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 10:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-824108</guid>
		<description>On the topic of sororities not behaving badly (which was mentioned WAY early in the thread) I am reminded of the series of Deadspin columns on Miami University&#039;s Pi Beta Phi - http://deadspin.com/#!5534166</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the topic of sororities not behaving badly (which was mentioned WAY early in the thread) I am reminded of the series of Deadspin columns on Miami University&#8217;s Pi Beta Phi &#8211; <a href="http://deadspin.com/#!5534166" rel="nofollow">http://deadspin.com/#!5534166</a></p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823914</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 22:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823914</guid>
		<description>For reasons that remain inexplicable to me many years later, I joined a fraternity while I was in college. It must have been the most boring fraternity that ever existed on the planet earth, because we never did anything really, and we didn&#039;t even have a house. I was the Academics Officer of the fraternity and so tried to uphold some modicum of academic standards with the fraternity, but yeah, it was pretty much a joke.

Oh, now I remember why I joined: sports. I wanted to play in the fraternity sports league. Which is a dumb reason to join a secret society when you think about it, but hey, I was like 19 years old at the time and didn&#039;t always think all my decisions through. 

Anyway, was my fraternity misogynist? Yeah, probably, although we weren&#039;t as bad as the other fraternities. (There was one on campus that would hang a pair of shoes in a tree every time two of the brothers allegedly had sex with the same woman.) Were we racist? Not at all, but a lot of other fraternities were.

In retrospect, I really regret joining a fraternity, because, sports aside, it just wasn&#039;t my scene. I wanted to be an intellectual and a non-conformist, and I was in many respects, which made me a really terrible fraternity member. As I realized the connotation of being in a fraternity, over time I ended up disguising my membership from any people that I thought might lose respect for me, so in other words, any people who were intelligent and independent. 

Oh well. I guess I would support the banning of fraternities because then at least people who should know better won&#039;t make the mistake of joining them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For reasons that remain inexplicable to me many years later, I joined a fraternity while I was in college. It must have been the most boring fraternity that ever existed on the planet earth, because we never did anything really, and we didn&#8217;t even have a house. I was the Academics Officer of the fraternity and so tried to uphold some modicum of academic standards with the fraternity, but yeah, it was pretty much a joke.</p>
<p>Oh, now I remember why I joined: sports. I wanted to play in the fraternity sports league. Which is a dumb reason to join a secret society when you think about it, but hey, I was like 19 years old at the time and didn&#8217;t always think all my decisions through. </p>
<p>Anyway, was my fraternity misogynist? Yeah, probably, although we weren&#8217;t as bad as the other fraternities. (There was one on campus that would hang a pair of shoes in a tree every time two of the brothers allegedly had sex with the same woman.) Were we racist? Not at all, but a lot of other fraternities were.</p>
<p>In retrospect, I really regret joining a fraternity, because, sports aside, it just wasn&#8217;t my scene. I wanted to be an intellectual and a non-conformist, and I was in many respects, which made me a really terrible fraternity member. As I realized the connotation of being in a fraternity, over time I ended up disguising my membership from any people that I thought might lose respect for me, so in other words, any people who were intelligent and independent. </p>
<p>Oh well. I guess I would support the banning of fraternities because then at least people who should know better won&#8217;t make the mistake of joining them!</p>
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		<title>By: Shakti</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823864</link>
		<dc:creator>Shakti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 16:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823864</guid>
		<description>I went to a college in a small Ohio town that had more bars and churches than coffeehouses. The college was the most interesting place in town. 

Frankly, I don&#039;t think fraternities in general are all that great. Historically white fraternities tend to be bastions of suck. (I don&#039;t really include HBF or academic frats in this.) The volunteerism tends to be a more of an eyewash so they have a reason to exist other than beer pong.   The frats tended to do things like yell sexist slogans at Take Back the Night Marchers, bully gay people on campus and deceptively spike the punch. (You thought that was water? Oops.) My school had those stupid whistles they gave every freshwoman, but never really cared about making places safer.  Frat socials attracted guys who thought nothing of making running commentaries on how great it would be to get Mexicans for knife-fights while eating Mexican restaurants.  They didn&#039;t even throw the best parties (that was the small living units), which is maybe the one thing they&#039;re supposed to be good at.

Since I&#039;m female, joining fraternities was never an option. I opted not to join or rush a sorority, because 1)I would have had to pay fees and still live in campus housing and 2)the supposed alumna connections seemed to be so much hot air and 3)I simply wasn&#039;t interested in being part of the &quot;Fraternities-Ladies Auxiliary&quot; or 4)the rampant body policing. The coolest people I met mostly &lt;i&gt;ex-sorority&lt;/i&gt; members or not ever members of sororities.  

I have two friends who went to a very heavy Greek dominated university in an even tinier town and I can&#039;t say that either of them felt like they benefited job-wise from joining. Of course, the fact they were both  full scholarship students who were non-white may have had something to do with it. My friend feels awkward socializing without beer (and he&#039;s in his late 20s and his family has a history of alcoholism), and his sister dieted herself down to a size 0 -- and she&#039;s 5&#039;7&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to a college in a small Ohio town that had more bars and churches than coffeehouses. The college was the most interesting place in town. </p>
<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t think fraternities in general are all that great. Historically white fraternities tend to be bastions of suck. (I don&#8217;t really include HBF or academic frats in this.) The volunteerism tends to be a more of an eyewash so they have a reason to exist other than beer pong.   The frats tended to do things like yell sexist slogans at Take Back the Night Marchers, bully gay people on campus and deceptively spike the punch. (You thought that was water? Oops.) My school had those stupid whistles they gave every freshwoman, but never really cared about making places safer.  Frat socials attracted guys who thought nothing of making running commentaries on how great it would be to get Mexicans for knife-fights while eating Mexican restaurants.  They didn&#8217;t even throw the best parties (that was the small living units), which is maybe the one thing they&#8217;re supposed to be good at.</p>
<p>Since I&#8217;m female, joining fraternities was never an option. I opted not to join or rush a sorority, because 1)I would have had to pay fees and still live in campus housing and 2)the supposed alumna connections seemed to be so much hot air and 3)I simply wasn&#8217;t interested in being part of the &#8220;Fraternities-Ladies Auxiliary&#8221; or 4)the rampant body policing. The coolest people I met mostly <i>ex-sorority</i> members or not ever members of sororities.  </p>
<p>I have two friends who went to a very heavy Greek dominated university in an even tinier town and I can&#8217;t say that either of them felt like they benefited job-wise from joining. Of course, the fact they were both  full scholarship students who were non-white may have had something to do with it. My friend feels awkward socializing without beer (and he&#8217;s in his late 20s and his family has a history of alcoholism), and his sister dieted herself down to a size 0 &#8212; and she&#8217;s 5&#8217;7&#8243;.</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade PhysioProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823281</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade PhysioProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 21:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823281</guid>
		<description>My college fraternity was neither homophobic, misogynist, nor violent, although we were exceedingly handsome and drunk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My college fraternity was neither homophobic, misogynist, nor violent, although we were exceedingly handsome and drunk.</p>
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		<title>By: Hobbes</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823245</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 19:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823245</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s ban the US Government instead. They subsidize the growers that produce the grain that makes the alcohol and fuels the humans that join fraternities. They make billions off alcohol taxes. They subsidize public educational institutions where this behavior happens. And the military arm of our government (I&#039;ve heard) has done damage to people and cities that make fraternity parties seem like child&#039;s play---just sayin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s ban the US Government instead. They subsidize the growers that produce the grain that makes the alcohol and fuels the humans that join fraternities. They make billions off alcohol taxes. They subsidize public educational institutions where this behavior happens. And the military arm of our government (I&#8217;ve heard) has done damage to people and cities that make fraternity parties seem like child&#8217;s play&#8212;just sayin.</p>
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		<title>By: Saturday Links &#171; Gerry Canavan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823139</link>
		<dc:creator>Saturday Links &#171; Gerry Canavan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 15:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823139</guid>
		<description>[...] Unpopular opinions, number one: Yes, colleges should absolutely ban fraternities. I feel certain that at many schools donor flight is the only thing keeping the frats [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Unpopular opinions, number one: Yes, colleges should absolutely ban fraternities. I feel certain that at many schools donor flight is the only thing keeping the frats [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Perpetua</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823128</link>
		<dc:creator>Perpetua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 13:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823128</guid>
		<description>OT of fraternities, but on topic re: women and sexual assault on university campuses - I just came across this at the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/univ-of-virginias-proposed-rules-would-lower-standard-for-sexual-misconduct/2011/05/05/AFwQVt1F_story.html

I don&#039;t know what these policy changes will mean on the ground, but it&#039;s something.  At the end of the article, a sexual assault victims&#039; rights advocate makes a sharp point that it took the (public-relations disaster) of a young woman&#039;s death to provoke these new policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT of fraternities, but on topic re: women and sexual assault on university campuses &#8211; I just came across this at the Washington Post:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/univ-of-virginias-proposed-rules-would-lower-standard-for-sexual-misconduct/2011/05/05/AFwQVt1F_story.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/univ-of-virginias-proposed-rules-would-lower-standard-for-sexual-misconduct/2011/05/05/AFwQVt1F_story.html</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what these policy changes will mean on the ground, but it&#8217;s something.  At the end of the article, a sexual assault victims&#8217; rights advocate makes a sharp point that it took the (public-relations disaster) of a young woman&#8217;s death to provoke these new policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/05/06/should-colleges-ban-fraternities/comment-page-1/#comment-823122</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 13:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=15169#comment-823122</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Another point is that guns kill enormous numbers of people in the US on a daily basis, and we won’t even consider getting rid of them, I think the fraternity violence issue is related.
Keeping fraternities because some do charity or provide affordable housing is like saying guns are okay be sometimes the intended victim can defend him/herself. It ignores the culture that pervades gun ownership/fraternities.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Yes.  Because the de-recognition or abolition of fraternities would impinge on male privilege, we can&#039;t even consider it.  Nevermind that women are now the majority of students nationally pursuing both undergraduate and graduate degrees--the interests of the minority are a trifling matter against the interests of patriarchal equilibrium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Another point is that guns kill enormous numbers of people in the US on a daily basis, and we won’t even consider getting rid of them, I think the fraternity violence issue is related.<br />
Keeping fraternities because some do charity or provide affordable housing is like saying guns are okay be sometimes the intended victim can defend him/herself. It ignores the culture that pervades gun ownership/fraternities.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Yes.  Because the de-recognition or abolition of fraternities would impinge on male privilege, we can&#8217;t even consider it.  Nevermind that women are now the majority of students nationally pursuing both undergraduate and graduate degrees&#8211;the interests of the minority are a trifling matter against the interests of patriarchal equilibrium.</p>
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