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	<title>Comments on: Larry Flynt, time hater</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Sausage party, or wiener roast? Founding Fathers/Presidential Chic, again! : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820661</link>
		<dc:creator>Sausage party, or wiener roast? Founding Fathers/Presidential Chic, again! : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 13:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820661</guid>
		<description>[...] Lovers Changed the Course of American History along with pR0n king Larry Flynt, has responded to my critique of his book, which was more a critique of the genre than of his book in particular.  As some readers may [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lovers Changed the Course of American History along with pR0n king Larry Flynt, has responded to my critique of his book, which was more a critique of the genre than of his book in particular.  As some readers may [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Eisenbach</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820201</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eisenbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 03:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820201</guid>
		<description>But you and your readers are my target audience and I am certain that feminists who read the book will love it.  For the first time a popular history places women-- first ladies and mistresses -- as pivotal players in the grand sweep of the history of the presidency and America. Believe me you got to read this book.  If you read it and hate it and slam it -- great!  But don&#039;t just take shots based on presumptions.  We all know that&#039;s what the enemies of progress do to us all the time.  Why are we do it to each other?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you and your readers are my target audience and I am certain that feminists who read the book will love it.  For the first time a popular history places women&#8211; first ladies and mistresses &#8212; as pivotal players in the grand sweep of the history of the presidency and America. Believe me you got to read this book.  If you read it and hate it and slam it &#8212; great!  But don&#8217;t just take shots based on presumptions.  We all know that&#8217;s what the enemies of progress do to us all the time.  Why are we do it to each other?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820196</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 02:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820196</guid>
		<description>I judge books all of the time by their footnotes, and I don&#039;t think that&#039;s something unusual among professional historians.  I like to see if they&#039;re in dialogue with scholars whose work interests me.  That&#039;s the criteria by which I&#039;ve judged your book, along with the foolish comments of your co-author.

There are a lot of books that focus on the history of the U.S. Presidency that I don&#039;t read.  Lots.  In fact, there&#039;s an almost undending stream of them!

You&#039;re coming from expertise in an entirely different century than I am, and you&#039;re not very interested in the feminist scholarship that built much of the framework for your book.  But that&#039;s what I&#039;m interested in, given my training and interests, and that&#039;s what interests most of my readers.  But we of course are not your target audience--so I&#039;m sure that whatever we think will be entirely irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I judge books all of the time by their footnotes, and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s something unusual among professional historians.  I like to see if they&#8217;re in dialogue with scholars whose work interests me.  That&#8217;s the criteria by which I&#8217;ve judged your book, along with the foolish comments of your co-author.</p>
<p>There are a lot of books that focus on the history of the U.S. Presidency that I don&#8217;t read.  Lots.  In fact, there&#8217;s an almost undending stream of them!</p>
<p>You&#8217;re coming from expertise in an entirely different century than I am, and you&#8217;re not very interested in the feminist scholarship that built much of the framework for your book.  But that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m interested in, given my training and interests, and that&#8217;s what interests most of my readers.  But we of course are not your target audience&#8211;so I&#8217;m sure that whatever we think will be entirely irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eisenbach</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820191</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eisenbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 02:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820191</guid>
		<description>How you can judge a book based on a Google search?  

Not only did you miss Katz who is extensively discussed in the text of the book but you also missed our citations of  William Benemann &quot;Intimacy in Early America,&quot; Rodger Streitmatter &quot;Empty without You: The Intimate Letters of Eleanor Roosevelt and Lorena Hickock,&quot; (Cook actualy had 7 citations of her two volumes on Eleanor Roosevelt), David K Johnson &quot;The Lavender Scare: The Cold War Persecution of Gays and Lesbians in the Federal Government.&quot;  

You must admit that pulling out a handful of historians and criticizing us for not citing them is not at all fair.  What history cites everything? 

I still would like you to review the book. Let me know if you want a copy and Ill have one sent to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How you can judge a book based on a Google search?  </p>
<p>Not only did you miss Katz who is extensively discussed in the text of the book but you also missed our citations of  William Benemann &#8220;Intimacy in Early America,&#8221; Rodger Streitmatter &#8220;Empty without You: The Intimate Letters of Eleanor Roosevelt and Lorena Hickock,&#8221; (Cook actualy had 7 citations of her two volumes on Eleanor Roosevelt), David K Johnson &#8220;The Lavender Scare: The Cold War Persecution of Gays and Lesbians in the Federal Government.&#8221;  </p>
<p>You must admit that pulling out a handful of historians and criticizing us for not citing them is not at all fair.  What history cites everything? </p>
<p>I still would like you to review the book. Let me know if you want a copy and Ill have one sent to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820050</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 17:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820050</guid>
		<description>David--I took your advice and went back to the footnotes of your book and used the &quot;search inside&quot; feature to see if I could find the names and books of prominent feminist and LGBTQ historians whose work would appear to have been foundational to yours.  Here are the names I searched:

Leila Rupp:  0 citations
Martin Duberman:  0 citations
Carroll Smith-Rosenberg:  0 citations
Nancy Isenberg:  0 citations
Blanche Wiesen Cook:  1 citation

Please correct me if the search engine didn&#039;t pick up these names.  I skimmed over the footnotes but I&#039;m sure it&#039;s possible that I missed them.

Understand that my critique here was not so much about your book with Flynt in particular as it is about the genre and style of writing popular histories.  I know that trade publishers are pretty hostile to the scholarly apparatus and that you&#039;re limited to only very brief footnotes, etc.  But understand too that it grinds the gears of those of us who were publicly scolded in conferences &amp; risked our careers to advance what were seen as &quot;dangerous&quot; and &quot;subversive&quot; ideas and have finally published them with university presses to see our work both not credited for its insights and then ALSO scolded publicly by the likes of Flynt.

My point is that your book with Flynt rests on the labors of a lot of people who worked for years to win professional and public acceptance for their scholarship, but once again they get lumped in perjoratively with all &quot;historians&quot; as anal-retentive killjoys whose ideas are at war with the ideas in your book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David&#8211;I took your advice and went back to the footnotes of your book and used the &#8220;search inside&#8221; feature to see if I could find the names and books of prominent feminist and LGBTQ historians whose work would appear to have been foundational to yours.  Here are the names I searched:</p>
<p>Leila Rupp:  0 citations<br />
Martin Duberman:  0 citations<br />
Carroll Smith-Rosenberg:  0 citations<br />
Nancy Isenberg:  0 citations<br />
Blanche Wiesen Cook:  1 citation</p>
<p>Please correct me if the search engine didn&#8217;t pick up these names.  I skimmed over the footnotes but I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s possible that I missed them.</p>
<p>Understand that my critique here was not so much about your book with Flynt in particular as it is about the genre and style of writing popular histories.  I know that trade publishers are pretty hostile to the scholarly apparatus and that you&#8217;re limited to only very brief footnotes, etc.  But understand too that it grinds the gears of those of us who were publicly scolded in conferences &#038; risked our careers to advance what were seen as &#8220;dangerous&#8221; and &#8220;subversive&#8221; ideas and have finally published them with university presses to see our work both not credited for its insights and then ALSO scolded publicly by the likes of Flynt.</p>
<p>My point is that your book with Flynt rests on the labors of a lot of people who worked for years to win professional and public acceptance for their scholarship, but once again they get lumped in perjoratively with all &#8220;historians&#8221; as anal-retentive killjoys whose ideas are at war with the ideas in your book.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eisenbach</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820041</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eisenbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820041</guid>
		<description>Also check out Chapter 3 which deals with our first gay president James Buchanan and Abe Lincoln&#039;s complicated sexuality.  You will see an extensive discussion of Jonathan Ned Katz&#039;s work on popular attitudes toward homosexuality in the mid 19th century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also check out Chapter 3 which deals with our first gay president James Buchanan and Abe Lincoln&#8217;s complicated sexuality.  You will see an extensive discussion of Jonathan Ned Katz&#8217;s work on popular attitudes toward homosexuality in the mid 19th century.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eisenbach</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-820040</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eisenbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 16:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-820040</guid>
		<description>I am the coauthor of One Nation Under Sex. I was disappointed to see your criticism of our alleged lack of feminist or queer studies analysis. My first book was Gay Power: An American Revolution which chronicles the history of the gay rights movement.

http://www.amazon.com/Gay-Power-Revolution-David-Eisenbach/dp/0786716339

When you read the book you will notice many gay and female heroes from Frederick Von Steuben to Eleanor Roosevelt. We made a great effort to give women and and gays a central place in the history of the presidency and America.  All I ask is that after you read the book to please offer a review.  I promise you will not be disappointed.

David Eisenbach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am the coauthor of One Nation Under Sex. I was disappointed to see your criticism of our alleged lack of feminist or queer studies analysis. My first book was Gay Power: An American Revolution which chronicles the history of the gay rights movement.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Gay-Power-Revolution-David-Eisenbach/dp/0786716339" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Gay-Power-Revolution-David-Eisenbach/dp/0786716339</a></p>
<p>When you read the book you will notice many gay and female heroes from Frederick Von Steuben to Eleanor Roosevelt. We made a great effort to give women and and gays a central place in the history of the presidency and America.  All I ask is that after you read the book to please offer a review.  I promise you will not be disappointed.</p>
<p>David Eisenbach</p>
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		<title>By: cgeye</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-819476</link>
		<dc:creator>cgeye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 20:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-819476</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s The Man, as always -- we went from that golden age of blaxploitation vengeance to forced mellow real quick, din&#039;t we? Time Hatas could&#039;ve been a stellar AIP series, if anyone with Chappelle&#039;s vision existed back then, under Corman&#039;s, um, whip....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s The Man, as always &#8212; we went from that golden age of blaxploitation vengeance to forced mellow real quick, din&#8217;t we? Time Hatas could&#8217;ve been a stellar AIP series, if anyone with Chappelle&#8217;s vision existed back then, under Corman&#8217;s, um, whip&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-819081</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-819081</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right--I had completely forgotten that, John S.

Why can&#039;t we have more Time Haters and more slave masters shot at point-blank range?  I don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right&#8211;I had completely forgotten that, John S.</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t we have more Time Haters and more slave masters shot at point-blank range?  I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: John S.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/04/26/larry-flynt-time-hater/comment-page-1/#comment-819080</link>
		<dc:creator>John S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14992#comment-819080</guid>
		<description>The Playa Haters time travel sketch from Chapelle&#039;s Show is perhaps my second favorite bit they ever did. (Nothing will ever top the black white supremacist from the first episode. I&#039;m also partial to &quot;Charlie Murphy&#039;s True Hollywood Stories.) Crucially, though, that sketch wasn&#039;t approved to air. After they filmed it, apparently no one but Chapelle and show co-founder Neil Brennan found Dave shooting a slave master dead all that funny. They only worked it back on the air in their &quot;Rejected Sketches&quot; episode when they needed more material.

The moral of the story--perhaps not everyone shares my sense of humor on pimps, pistols, and manumission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Playa Haters time travel sketch from Chapelle&#8217;s Show is perhaps my second favorite bit they ever did. (Nothing will ever top the black white supremacist from the first episode. I&#8217;m also partial to &#8220;Charlie Murphy&#8217;s True Hollywood Stories.) Crucially, though, that sketch wasn&#8217;t approved to air. After they filmed it, apparently no one but Chapelle and show co-founder Neil Brennan found Dave shooting a slave master dead all that funny. They only worked it back on the air in their &#8220;Rejected Sketches&#8221; episode when they needed more material.</p>
<p>The moral of the story&#8211;perhaps not everyone shares my sense of humor on pimps, pistols, and manumission.</p>
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