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	<title>Comments on: Geraldine Ferraro (1935-2011), bad girls, and good girls</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Gender and performance in grad school : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-842459</link>
		<dc:creator>Gender and performance in grad school : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-842459</guid>
		<description>[...] I told her to get used to being called a pushy b!tch.  It&#8217;s just what happens when you&#8217;re a woman with an opinion, so do what you need to do for your education and don&#8217;t let it hurt your feelings.  I also [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I told her to get used to being called a pushy b!tch.  It&#8217;s just what happens when you&#8217;re a woman with an opinion, so do what you need to do for your education and don&#8217;t let it hurt your feelings.  I also [...]</p>
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		<title>By: julia</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-808471</link>
		<dc:creator>julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-808471</guid>
		<description>I was 21, it was my first time voting, and there she was.
I will never forget it. For me, Mondale was not the star, he was there so she could run.

It is sickening and heartbreaking to see how far they&#039;ve pushed us back. The Backlash was real - 20 years later I think the sexism was more visible, more acceptable and much worse.

I liked Ferraro&#039;s letter in support of Hillary Clinton.
All she did was tell the truth.

All this talk about &#039;good girl&#039; and &#039;bad girl&#039; reminds me of the whore/virgin split. I am neither. It&#039;s hard for people to place me. And for that I am grateful :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was 21, it was my first time voting, and there she was.<br />
I will never forget it. For me, Mondale was not the star, he was there so she could run.</p>
<p>It is sickening and heartbreaking to see how far they&#8217;ve pushed us back. The Backlash was real &#8211; 20 years later I think the sexism was more visible, more acceptable and much worse.</p>
<p>I liked Ferraro&#8217;s letter in support of Hillary Clinton.<br />
All she did was tell the truth.</p>
<p>All this talk about &#8216;good girl&#8217; and &#8216;bad girl&#8217; reminds me of the whore/virgin split. I am neither. It&#8217;s hard for people to place me. And for that I am grateful <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-808262</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-808262</guid>
		<description>Historiann:  Given what I remember about women&#039;s education in the 1950s, it was not &quot;Women and men should be educated equally...&quot; but &quot;White women should have every opportunity to meet a college educated man, just not while taking the same courses he does.&quot;  Women were shunted into new home economics departments and/or education departments as opposed to liberal arts or sciences.  I&#039;ll have to recheck Friedan and May but I&#039;m currently killing time at the car dealer having recall work done.  Semantic quibble, is there a difference between men&#039;s liberation and men&#039;s liberationist?  Having grown up under the idea that women&#039;s liberation was men&#039;s liberation, at least in terms of men being freed from harmful gender ideals that stunted men&#039;s human potential, especially in terms of non-market values, it just struck me as an odd phrasing.  I do realize that the number of 40 something guys who grew up in Free to Be You and Me households and still remember those lessons is only marginally &gt;0.  So I might be splitting hairs here for an audience of one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann:  Given what I remember about women&#8217;s education in the 1950s, it was not &#8220;Women and men should be educated equally&#8230;&#8221; but &#8220;White women should have every opportunity to meet a college educated man, just not while taking the same courses he does.&#8221;  Women were shunted into new home economics departments and/or education departments as opposed to liberal arts or sciences.  I&#8217;ll have to recheck Friedan and May but I&#8217;m currently killing time at the car dealer having recall work done.  Semantic quibble, is there a difference between men&#8217;s liberation and men&#8217;s liberationist?  Having grown up under the idea that women&#8217;s liberation was men&#8217;s liberation, at least in terms of men being freed from harmful gender ideals that stunted men&#8217;s human potential, especially in terms of non-market values, it just struck me as an odd phrasing.  I do realize that the number of 40 something guys who grew up in Free to Be You and Me households and still remember those lessons is only marginally &gt;0.  So I might be splitting hairs here for an audience of one.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807994</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807994</guid>
		<description>Eveningsun--I&#039;m going to see Anglea Davis speak at the University of Northern Colorado in a few weeks!  And she counts, big time, but I wouldn&#039;t call the CP a &quot;major political party&quot; in the U.S., now or historically.

Emma:  word.  Women&#039;s liberation is never seen as necessary, or as valuable, or as good and proper the way men&#039;s liberationist movements are.  The Left lionizes and celebrates the Civil Rights and Gay Rights movements, whereas it still is ambivalent or resentful of feminism.  

&quot;The Left&quot; always has a revisionist view of its own history with respect to feminism, too.  It never wants to embrace feminism as it is, only the feminist accomplishments of previous generations.  (Like this:  In 1950:  &quot;Well, &lt;i&gt;of course&lt;/i&gt; women and men should be educated equally, so long as women aren&#039;t competing for the same jobs.&quot;  In 2000:  &quot;Well, &lt;i&gt;of course&lt;/i&gt; women should have equal educational and professional opportunities, but they have them now so we&#039;re all postfeminist.&quot;  Etc.  That&#039;s the male left for you:  at least two generations behind the times when it comes to teh wimminz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eveningsun&#8211;I&#8217;m going to see Anglea Davis speak at the University of Northern Colorado in a few weeks!  And she counts, big time, but I wouldn&#8217;t call the CP a &#8220;major political party&#8221; in the U.S., now or historically.</p>
<p>Emma:  word.  Women&#8217;s liberation is never seen as necessary, or as valuable, or as good and proper the way men&#8217;s liberationist movements are.  The Left lionizes and celebrates the Civil Rights and Gay Rights movements, whereas it still is ambivalent or resentful of feminism.  </p>
<p>&#8220;The Left&#8221; always has a revisionist view of its own history with respect to feminism, too.  It never wants to embrace feminism as it is, only the feminist accomplishments of previous generations.  (Like this:  In 1950:  &#8220;Well, <i>of course</i> women and men should be educated equally, so long as women aren&#8217;t competing for the same jobs.&#8221;  In 2000:  &#8220;Well, <i>of course</i> women should have equal educational and professional opportunities, but they have them now so we&#8217;re all postfeminist.&#8221;  Etc.  That&#8217;s the male left for you:  at least two generations behind the times when it comes to teh wimminz.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807987</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 20:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807987</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the bigger quote:

“If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”

I think she&#039;s right:  the country was caught up in the concept of a Black man becoming President.  I would add what I think is implicit in Ferraro&#039;s comment: the country was caught up in that concept in a way it was not caught up in the concept of a white woman becoming President.

I think it&#039;s fair to use Ferraro&#039;s comment as a jumping off point to discuss WHY the country was not equally caught up in the historic possibility of a white woman becoming President.

Because I think her comment brings up really thorny issues of the intersection of race and gender, in particular how white feminist women specifically have been made the go-to boogiemen for racism in a way that leftist men/organizations have almost entirely avoided.  Is that because leftist men/organizations are less racist?  Or is it because male supremacy insulates them?  I would argue the latter.

I also don&#039;t think it&#039;s out-of-bounds for feminists to really think about and discuss whether race or gender or neither was a more constricting factor in the 2008 primaries and election.  I&#039;m not presuming the outcome of that inquiry.  I&#039;m just saying it&#039;s a valuable inquiry for learning how the mechanisms of white and male supremacy work and interact.   But that inquiry is short-circuited by dismissing Ferraro&#039;s comment as wholesale racism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the bigger quote:</p>
<p>“If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”</p>
<p>I think she&#8217;s right:  the country was caught up in the concept of a Black man becoming President.  I would add what I think is implicit in Ferraro&#8217;s comment: the country was caught up in that concept in a way it was not caught up in the concept of a white woman becoming President.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s fair to use Ferraro&#8217;s comment as a jumping off point to discuss WHY the country was not equally caught up in the historic possibility of a white woman becoming President.</p>
<p>Because I think her comment brings up really thorny issues of the intersection of race and gender, in particular how white feminist women specifically have been made the go-to boogiemen for racism in a way that leftist men/organizations have almost entirely avoided.  Is that because leftist men/organizations are less racist?  Or is it because male supremacy insulates them?  I would argue the latter.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s out-of-bounds for feminists to really think about and discuss whether race or gender or neither was a more constricting factor in the 2008 primaries and election.  I&#8217;m not presuming the outcome of that inquiry.  I&#8217;m just saying it&#8217;s a valuable inquiry for learning how the mechanisms of white and male supremacy work and interact.   But that inquiry is short-circuited by dismissing Ferraro&#8217;s comment as wholesale racism.</p>
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		<title>By: Eveningsun</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807972</link>
		<dc:creator>Eveningsun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 18:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807972</guid>
		<description>Bad girls? How about the v.p. candidate of the CPUSA in 1980, Angela Davis--does she still qualify?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bad girls? How about the v.p. candidate of the CPUSA in 1980, Angela Davis&#8211;does she still qualify?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807951</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807951</guid>
		<description>IIRC, Kitty Kelly&#039;s book on the Bushes suggested that Barbara&#039;s family money was pretty modest, as was the Bush money.  It was the Walkers (George H.W. Bush&#039;s mohter&#039;s family) who really had the dough.  (The compound at Kennebunkport is on a spit of land known as &quot;Walker Point.&quot;)

But I still think your major point is valid, truffula.  I guess family just money looks cleaner and smells fresher to some people even today than going to all of the trouble to make it yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC, Kitty Kelly&#8217;s book on the Bushes suggested that Barbara&#8217;s family money was pretty modest, as was the Bush money.  It was the Walkers (George H.W. Bush&#8217;s mohter&#8217;s family) who really had the dough.  (The compound at Kennebunkport is on a spit of land known as &#8220;Walker Point.&#8221;)</p>
<p>But I still think your major point is valid, truffula.  I guess family just money looks cleaner and smells fresher to some people even today than going to all of the trouble to make it yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: truffula</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807948</link>
		<dc:creator>truffula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 17:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807948</guid>
		<description>It angers me to this day that when it turned out that Geraldine Ferraro wasn&#039;t a pauper, that her family had followed the &quot;American dream,&quot; up and out of a lower economic class to some measure of wealth, she was castigated for it and by none other than Barbara Bush (whose clan acquired wealth long enough ago that we don&#039;t know any more what they did to get it). No matter what you do, if you are a woman, you will be criticized for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It angers me to this day that when it turned out that Geraldine Ferraro wasn&#8217;t a pauper, that her family had followed the &#8220;American dream,&#8221; up and out of a lower economic class to some measure of wealth, she was castigated for it and by none other than Barbara Bush (whose clan acquired wealth long enough ago that we don&#8217;t know any more what they did to get it). No matter what you do, if you are a woman, you will be criticized for it.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807798</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807798</guid>
		<description>Ferraro had three children at the time when she was running for president and she often took them with her during the campaign which caused that there were a lot of men even among her colleagues who on several occasions questioned her ability to lead the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ferraro had three children at the time when she was running for president and she often took them with her during the campaign which caused that there were a lot of men even among her colleagues who on several occasions questioned her ability to lead the country.</p>
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		<title>By: LadyProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/03/27/geraldine-ferraro-1935-2011-bad-girls-and-good-girls/comment-page-1/#comment-807768</link>
		<dc:creator>LadyProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 06:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=14647#comment-807768</guid>
		<description>Historiann, I&#039;ll paste the Ferraro quote:

&quot;If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is.&quot;

Maybe Ferraro meant to say that Obama was lucky to be a man, unmodified, as you suggest.  But most people heard her to say he was lucky to be &lt;b&gt;a black man&lt;/b&gt;.  Ferraro specifically said that a white man would have been less lucky.    

Unfortunate, as you note; maybe even racist.  But these sentences weren&#039;t the sum of Ferraro&#039;s career, even though Walsh put them at the beginning and the end of her piece, like headstones.  I agree that the Obama remark had to be included for the sake of readers who don&#039;t remember 1984.  But a better essay would have said more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann, I&#8217;ll paste the Ferraro quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe Ferraro meant to say that Obama was lucky to be a man, unmodified, as you suggest.  But most people heard her to say he was lucky to be <b>a black man</b>.  Ferraro specifically said that a white man would have been less lucky.    </p>
<p>Unfortunate, as you note; maybe even racist.  But these sentences weren&#8217;t the sum of Ferraro&#8217;s career, even though Walsh put them at the beginning and the end of her piece, like headstones.  I agree that the Obama remark had to be included for the sake of readers who don&#8217;t remember 1984.  But a better essay would have said more.</p>
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