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	<title>Comments on: Bad news/good news?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Which Students are &#8216;Adrift&#8217;? And why? &#171; Speaker&#39;s Corner</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-786511</link>
		<dc:creator>Which Students are &#8216;Adrift&#8217;? And why? &#171; Speaker&#39;s Corner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Feb 2011 17:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-786511</guid>
		<description>[...] Ann Little has pointed out, this data that lead NPR to the conclusions above actually shows something else often left out of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ann Little has pointed out, this data that lead NPR to the conclusions above actually shows something else often left out of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-780449</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jan 2011 08:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-780449</guid>
		<description>Well Hyphenated, perhaps you didn&#039;t have good essay assignments. Math did really help me write better papers in the humanities, but the math people say writing humanities papers helped them get more analytical for math, so... 

Anyway now I assign undergraduates something like 15 pages a semester to write in formal writing, and then other informal writing. Seniors read about 1,000 pages in a semester which is about 75 a week or so I guess. 

Freshman year I wrote all the time. In a quarter, we wrote about 30 pages for English comp. But I was also in French comp, which had about 15 pages, and Danish comp, which had a term paper of about that length, and history, which also had about 15 pages, so that was 75 pages in a quarter, so that was about 7.5 pages a week. It seemed like more because they had to be very good, logical pages, but I guess this is where I got my theory that you should write just over one good page every day and you would do well and still have time for life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Hyphenated, perhaps you didn&#8217;t have good essay assignments. Math did really help me write better papers in the humanities, but the math people say writing humanities papers helped them get more analytical for math, so&#8230; </p>
<p>Anyway now I assign undergraduates something like 15 pages a semester to write in formal writing, and then other informal writing. Seniors read about 1,000 pages in a semester which is about 75 a week or so I guess. </p>
<p>Freshman year I wrote all the time. In a quarter, we wrote about 30 pages for English comp. But I was also in French comp, which had about 15 pages, and Danish comp, which had a term paper of about that length, and history, which also had about 15 pages, so that was 75 pages in a quarter, so that was about 7.5 pages a week. It seemed like more because they had to be very good, logical pages, but I guess this is where I got my theory that you should write just over one good page every day and you would do well and still have time for life.</p>
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		<title>By: Hyphenated American</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-779875</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyphenated American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-779875</guid>
		<description>Lindsay,

I think writing essays as a means to teach &quot;critical thinking&quot; is wildly over-rated. Studying math (and I mean math proofs), understanding physics and engineering seems to me a much more reliable method of improving one&#039;s ability to analyze facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsay,</p>
<p>I think writing essays as a means to teach &#8220;critical thinking&#8221; is wildly over-rated. Studying math (and I mean math proofs), understanding physics and engineering seems to me a much more reliable method of improving one&#8217;s ability to analyze facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-779846</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 03:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-779846</guid>
		<description>@Anonymous:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In my science department, it is rare to assign ANY writing. Twenty pages per semester? Never heard of it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In my science classes, the labs required quite a bit of writing. Every week we had to write up whatever experiment we&#039;d done in the style of a journal article (but without the abstract): with an introduction where we explained the theory behind whatever we were doing, a materials and methods section, results and discussion. 

These lab reports would usually be 2-4 pages long, IIRC. I think having to write them --- particularly the more theoretical sections, like the introduction and discussion --- really helped deepen my understanding of the techniques we were using, what kind of information you get from each one, when you&#039;d use one as opposed to another, etc. 

@Historiann:
&lt;blockquote&gt;A class on evaluating journal articles would be really useful for most STEM majors, I would think.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ooh, what a great idea! I wish I&#039;d had a class like that, it would&#039;ve been really helpful.

(I especially wish I had more background in statistics, now that I&#039;m reviewing so many psych studies for my blog; I have to figure out what the difference is between all the different measures of significance they use, and what it means that they chose to use one over another, and it&#039;s just really bringing home to me the inadequacy of my lone, one-semester Intro to Stats class!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymous:</p>
<blockquote><p>In my science department, it is rare to assign ANY writing. Twenty pages per semester? Never heard of it.</p></blockquote>
<p>In my science classes, the labs required quite a bit of writing. Every week we had to write up whatever experiment we&#8217;d done in the style of a journal article (but without the abstract): with an introduction where we explained the theory behind whatever we were doing, a materials and methods section, results and discussion. </p>
<p>These lab reports would usually be 2-4 pages long, IIRC. I think having to write them &#8212; particularly the more theoretical sections, like the introduction and discussion &#8212; really helped deepen my understanding of the techniques we were using, what kind of information you get from each one, when you&#8217;d use one as opposed to another, etc. </p>
<p>@Historiann:</p>
<blockquote><p>A class on evaluating journal articles would be really useful for most STEM majors, I would think.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ooh, what a great idea! I wish I&#8217;d had a class like that, it would&#8217;ve been really helpful.</p>
<p>(I especially wish I had more background in statistics, now that I&#8217;m reviewing so many psych studies for my blog; I have to figure out what the difference is between all the different measures of significance they use, and what it means that they chose to use one over another, and it&#8217;s just really bringing home to me the inadequacy of my lone, one-semester Intro to Stats class!)</p>
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		<title>By: Hyphenated American</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-779803</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyphenated American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 02:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-779803</guid>
		<description>&quot;Students who majored in the traditional liberal arts — including the social sciences, humanities, natural sciences and mathematics — showed significantly greater gains over time than other students in critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing skills.&quot;

If we exclude the students who majored in natural sciences and math - how is the liberal arts doing? Did all those classes on feminist marxism improve their critical thinking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Students who majored in the traditional liberal arts — including the social sciences, humanities, natural sciences and mathematics — showed significantly greater gains over time than other students in critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing skills.&#8221;</p>
<p>If we exclude the students who majored in natural sciences and math &#8211; how is the liberal arts doing? Did all those classes on feminist marxism improve their critical thinking?</p>
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		<title>By: quixote</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-779025</link>
		<dc:creator>quixote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-779025</guid>
		<description>re truffula&#039;s comment about how far do we dumb down expectations to meet what students feel is the right amount of work.  Where&#039;s the edge of the river? she asks.

Wrong question.  It&#039;s not a river, but a horizon.  It can&#039;t be reached.  Or, put it differently, students will always do about half of what the teacher requires.  Pissing and moaning the whole way.  And in these days of tenure-by-evaluation, that means we have a problem. When meeting students&#039; receding expectations is a condition of continued employment, well, then we get studies documenting the slide, like this one.  (To borrow CPP&#039;s language: I don&#039;t fucken care about their methodology.  A fucken blind bat -- at least a fucken blind bat who teaches -- can see the process in every class.)

Re the purpose of pre-packaged labs in STE(not M): it&#039;s to teach the techniques and use of equipment: how to pipette, how to calibrate a pH meter, how to find a given nerve in a rat dissection.  Pretending that&#039;s about any kind of &quot;discovery,&quot; or even thought, is an insult to the student&#039;s intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re truffula&#8217;s comment about how far do we dumb down expectations to meet what students feel is the right amount of work.  Where&#8217;s the edge of the river? she asks.</p>
<p>Wrong question.  It&#8217;s not a river, but a horizon.  It can&#8217;t be reached.  Or, put it differently, students will always do about half of what the teacher requires.  Pissing and moaning the whole way.  And in these days of tenure-by-evaluation, that means we have a problem. When meeting students&#8217; receding expectations is a condition of continued employment, well, then we get studies documenting the slide, like this one.  (To borrow CPP&#8217;s language: I don&#8217;t fucken care about their methodology.  A fucken blind bat &#8212; at least a fucken blind bat who teaches &#8212; can see the process in every class.)</p>
<p>Re the purpose of pre-packaged labs in STE(not M): it&#8217;s to teach the techniques and use of equipment: how to pipette, how to calibrate a pH meter, how to find a given nerve in a rat dissection.  Pretending that&#8217;s about any kind of &#8220;discovery,&#8221; or even thought, is an insult to the student&#8217;s intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Weekly Superlinks &#171; The Wool Laboratory</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-779023</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Superlinks &#171; The Wool Laboratory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-779023</guid>
		<description>[...] Bad news/good news? Historiann on learning and critical thinking in college. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bad news/good news? Historiann on learning and critical thinking in college. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-778757</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 03:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-778757</guid>
		<description>@Perpetua.  If you are giving them feedback on the writing try this trick that a colleague learned during her student teaching.  They write a response paper every week but you only grade one element which you give feedback on.  Thesis statements one week, use of evidence the next and so on.  They don&#039;t know which one you&#039;ll grade on (due two in a row one time in the first couple of weeks - I suggest thesis statement).  Then the last three weeks grade the whole paper.  You&#039;ll see improvement.  And if you can take some class time to model good and bad thesis statements (anonymously of course) that would help.  If your campus has turnitin, the comment function works great for this type of thing for speeding grading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Perpetua.  If you are giving them feedback on the writing try this trick that a colleague learned during her student teaching.  They write a response paper every week but you only grade one element which you give feedback on.  Thesis statements one week, use of evidence the next and so on.  They don&#8217;t know which one you&#8217;ll grade on (due two in a row one time in the first couple of weeks &#8211; I suggest thesis statement).  Then the last three weeks grade the whole paper.  You&#8217;ll see improvement.  And if you can take some class time to model good and bad thesis statements (anonymously of course) that would help.  If your campus has turnitin, the comment function works great for this type of thing for speeding grading.</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-778469</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-778469</guid>
		<description>Sorry. C-PP.  Not thinking, much less critically thinking!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry. C-PP.  Not thinking, much less critically thinking!</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade PhysioProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2011/01/20/bad-newsgood-news/comment-page-1/#comment-778467</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade PhysioProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=13917#comment-778467</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;On “critical” thinking even more important than reading or writing, I think, would be pure socratic dialogue. Relentless in-class questioning and answering with the compulsion to defend or repair weak points in the answers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is exactly how I run my small-group medical physiology tutorials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>On “critical” thinking even more important than reading or writing, I think, would be pure socratic dialogue. Relentless in-class questioning and answering with the compulsion to defend or repair weak points in the answers.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is exactly how I run my small-group medical physiology tutorials.</p>
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