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	<title>Comments on: Profiles in Courage?</title>
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	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: quixote</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-690480</link>
		<dc:creator>quixote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-690480</guid>
		<description>This is the second time Obama has backpedaled on what&#039;s right, isn&#039;t it?  (There are only two occasions that I remember, so he&#039;s only had two chances.)  The first was the Gates - Cambridge Police affair, when he said the cops over-reacted.  Now there&#039;s L&#039;Affaire Mosque.

Have there been any others?  Has there ever been one where he came down on the right side and didn&#039;t backpedal?

(Also, thanks to Aishlin for explaining. At least for me, it&#039;s too easy to forget some of the other viewpoints.  Remember: you were insistently and skillfully lied to.  I&#039;d say it speaks well for *your* honesty that you expected honesty.  There&#039;s a reason why many of the people who didn&#039;t support him were older.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the second time Obama has backpedaled on what&#8217;s right, isn&#8217;t it?  (There are only two occasions that I remember, so he&#8217;s only had two chances.)  The first was the Gates &#8211; Cambridge Police affair, when he said the cops over-reacted.  Now there&#8217;s L&#8217;Affaire Mosque.</p>
<p>Have there been any others?  Has there ever been one where he came down on the right side and didn&#8217;t backpedal?</p>
<p>(Also, thanks to Aishlin for explaining. At least for me, it&#8217;s too easy to forget some of the other viewpoints.  Remember: you were insistently and skillfully lied to.  I&#8217;d say it speaks well for *your* honesty that you expected honesty.  There&#8217;s a reason why many of the people who didn&#8217;t support him were older.)</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689881</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 00:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689881</guid>
		<description>Obama, moderate and non confrontational, sure, although I&#039;d actually say conservative (just not rabid right). Judis article, yes, I know the record and if I were in Obama&#039;s place I&#039;d lead. 

But I still say, the air waves here are SO anti Moslem and anti First Amendment generally, I see why the odd rational statement on these matters stands out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama, moderate and non confrontational, sure, although I&#8217;d actually say conservative (just not rabid right). Judis article, yes, I know the record and if I were in Obama&#8217;s place I&#8217;d lead. </p>
<p>But I still say, the air waves here are SO anti Moslem and anti First Amendment generally, I see why the odd rational statement on these matters stands out.</p>
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		<title>By: Aishlin</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689842</link>
		<dc:creator>Aishlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 23:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689842</guid>
		<description>I heard on the radio (NPR, I think?) that Obama backpedaled on that statement, saying that he was only asserting that Muslims had a legal right to build a mosque on private property, not that these particular plans were a good idea.  IIRC, he even went so far as to say he thought the Cordoba House shouldn&#039;t be built on the proposed site.  Pretty disappointing.  On the other hand, they also had some poll showing that 60% of Americans agreed with the Republican/Tea Partier line on the issue, which I think explains why some liberals would greet Obama&#039;s first statement as courageous.  That was generally how I felt about Obama when I supported him in the election, anyway.  I didn&#039;t expect his political stances to reflect my views that closely, but I was impressed whenever he stood even a little to the left, since he seemed to take so much heat for that.  I&#039;m not impressed anymore, and I&#039;ve come to agree with something you said on here: I&#039;m tired of supporting these Democrats just to see them toss women and gay people under the bus.  But because I thought during the elections that I wasn&#039;t one of those deluded Obama fans, that I wasn&#039;t idealizing him or expecting more than he was actually promising, it always stings a little when you point out the naivete of so many Obama supporters --which is not to say that you shouldn&#039;t be angry, just that occasionally, if not very often, the people who leave angry comments on Obama topics aren&#039;t trolls with anti-feminist expectations but defensive female Obama supporters (or, like me, former Obama supporters) upset at feeling that, even among feminists, they can&#039;t quite manage to get it right.  At least, at the times when I&#039;ve been tempted to leave comments like the first one by Disappointed, that was my motivation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard on the radio (NPR, I think?) that Obama backpedaled on that statement, saying that he was only asserting that Muslims had a legal right to build a mosque on private property, not that these particular plans were a good idea.  IIRC, he even went so far as to say he thought the Cordoba House shouldn&#8217;t be built on the proposed site.  Pretty disappointing.  On the other hand, they also had some poll showing that 60% of Americans agreed with the Republican/Tea Partier line on the issue, which I think explains why some liberals would greet Obama&#8217;s first statement as courageous.  That was generally how I felt about Obama when I supported him in the election, anyway.  I didn&#8217;t expect his political stances to reflect my views that closely, but I was impressed whenever he stood even a little to the left, since he seemed to take so much heat for that.  I&#8217;m not impressed anymore, and I&#8217;ve come to agree with something you said on here: I&#8217;m tired of supporting these Democrats just to see them toss women and gay people under the bus.  But because I thought during the elections that I wasn&#8217;t one of those deluded Obama fans, that I wasn&#8217;t idealizing him or expecting more than he was actually promising, it always stings a little when you point out the naivete of so many Obama supporters &#8211;which is not to say that you shouldn&#8217;t be angry, just that occasionally, if not very often, the people who leave angry comments on Obama topics aren&#8217;t trolls with anti-feminist expectations but defensive female Obama supporters (or, like me, former Obama supporters) upset at feeling that, even among feminists, they can&#8217;t quite manage to get it right.  At least, at the times when I&#8217;ve been tempted to leave comments like the first one by Disappointed, that was my motivation.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689713</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689713</guid>
		<description>p.s. to Z:  I don&#039;t think Obama is moderating to help anyone else.  At least, House Dems seem pretty unanimously to think that both he and the Senate have forced them to take the tough votes, then let them hang out to dry.  They don&#039;t think he was helpful when his approval ratings were in the 60s, and now that they&#039;re in the mid-40s, the ones you cite sure as hell don&#039;t want him setting foot in their CDs during the campaign.  

Being moderate and unconfrontational is who Obama.  For more perspective on this, read the Judis article, if you have a spare 15 minutes today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s. to Z:  I don&#8217;t think Obama is moderating to help anyone else.  At least, House Dems seem pretty unanimously to think that both he and the Senate have forced them to take the tough votes, then let them hang out to dry.  They don&#8217;t think he was helpful when his approval ratings were in the 60s, and now that they&#8217;re in the mid-40s, the ones you cite sure as hell don&#8217;t want him setting foot in their CDs during the campaign.  </p>
<p>Being moderate and unconfrontational is who Obama.  For more perspective on this, read the Judis article, if you have a spare 15 minutes today.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689711</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689711</guid>
		<description>What Dickens Reader said, exactly.  That&#039;s what I meant by the expression &quot;settling for crumbs.&quot;

In many ways, the low bar explains the rise and triumph of Obama in the first place.  Being the not-Bush with no record of problematic votes he had to cast while gaining actual experience in Washington were his major credentials.  Not having major experience either in Washington or in any executive office clearly has hurt his presidency.  I almost never link to &lt;i&gt;The New Republic&lt;/i&gt; (unless it&#039;s to mock something published there), but I found this analysis of the problems with Obama&#039;s governing strategy as well as his specific tactics is extremely acute:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/magazine/76972/obama-failure-polls-populism-recession-health-care?passthru=MzM1ZDQ4YmRkZTM1NDBhZDJlNDNiYjg4OTM3OTRhNTk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Judis, &quot;The Unnecessary Fall:  A Counter-History of the Obama Presidency.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;  (Regular readers will have seen most of the opinions therein expressed in various different ways here over the past 18 months.)

We need a bold leader willing to take the heat, not the post-partisan unity schtick.  Readers are free to disagree, but I don&#039;t think that giving Obama cookies for endorsing the First Amendment is anything but silly.  I don&#039;t see why that&#039;s at all &quot;intellectually sincere.&quot;  So &quot;disappointed,&quot; please show me the posts in which I have claimed otherwise, or have praised people inordinately for being able to read and comprehend the First Amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Dickens Reader said, exactly.  That&#8217;s what I meant by the expression &#8220;settling for crumbs.&#8221;</p>
<p>In many ways, the low bar explains the rise and triumph of Obama in the first place.  Being the not-Bush with no record of problematic votes he had to cast while gaining actual experience in Washington were his major credentials.  Not having major experience either in Washington or in any executive office clearly has hurt his presidency.  I almost never link to <i>The New Republic</i> (unless it&#8217;s to mock something published there), but I found this analysis of the problems with Obama&#8217;s governing strategy as well as his specific tactics is extremely acute:  <a href="http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/magazine/76972/obama-failure-polls-populism-recession-health-care?passthru=MzM1ZDQ4YmRkZTM1NDBhZDJlNDNiYjg4OTM3OTRhNTk" rel="nofollow">John Judis, &#8220;The Unnecessary Fall:  A Counter-History of the Obama Presidency.&#8221;</a>  (Regular readers will have seen most of the opinions therein expressed in various different ways here over the past 18 months.)</p>
<p>We need a bold leader willing to take the heat, not the post-partisan unity schtick.  Readers are free to disagree, but I don&#8217;t think that giving Obama cookies for endorsing the First Amendment is anything but silly.  I don&#8217;t see why that&#8217;s at all &#8220;intellectually sincere.&#8221;  So &#8220;disappointed,&#8221; please show me the posts in which I have claimed otherwise, or have praised people inordinately for being able to read and comprehend the First Amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dickens Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689691</link>
		<dc:creator>Dickens Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689691</guid>
		<description>When it is laudable to do what is expected, the bar is set too low.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it is laudable to do what is expected, the bar is set too low.</p>
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		<title>By: disappointed</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689686</link>
		<dc:creator>disappointed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689686</guid>
		<description>Historiann, I think you&#039;re absolutely right that I shouldn&#039;t have begun a comment by calling out your tone.  I don&#039;t like it when people do that to me, and I agree that it&#039;s a very gender-unequal way of framing criticisms.  I owe you an apology for that.  But I&#039;m not a troll, I&#039;m a lurker (I think that&#039;s slightly less objectionable, right?).  As Rebecca intuited, I am an admirer and regular reader of this blog for a variety of reasons, and I was driven to comment on a post that elicited a strongly negative reaction in me, perhaps partly as a way to think through my own reaction, but also, I think, because I do feel a sort of investment in this blog as a discursive community.  (That probably means I ought to be commenting more, and under a real or at least consistent name -- I get that now.)  I know that you don&#039;t make any dough doing this, Historiann, and I agree that you don&#039;t owe your readers anything, but I did think part of the motivation for blogging was to communicate with an audience and get reactions to one&#039;s ideas.  If I had been less intemperate in my original comment, I would have restricted myself to saying only the below, which I think remains a valid (and, I hoped, constructive) point in the discussion you started Obama&#039;s statement on the NYC mosque.

Just because some folks on the left find Obama’s statement laudable doesn’t mean they are “settling for crumbs.” No one on the left, including the writer quoted, is actually saying that, because Obama has made this statement, his entire presidency is therefore an unqualified success and he is absolved of responsibility to do anything else. *Certainly* no one is saying that because Obama has spoken for the first-amendment rights of Muslims, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell suddenly doesn’t need to be addressed. Maybe I misread what you mean be “settling for crumbs”; I think a reasonable gloss of that phrase would be, ‘accept something meager as a substitute for something more substantial and appropriate.’ But who ever said this statement was a substitute for something else? It’s just a thing in itself, which observers are free to evaluate on its merits. And though it certainly isn’t earth-shattering, or anything more than what a president should say in this circumstance, it is, on its own (albeit small) merits, laudable. Evaluating it as a substitute for other things that no actual person is comparing it to is intellectually insincere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann, I think you&#8217;re absolutely right that I shouldn&#8217;t have begun a comment by calling out your tone.  I don&#8217;t like it when people do that to me, and I agree that it&#8217;s a very gender-unequal way of framing criticisms.  I owe you an apology for that.  But I&#8217;m not a troll, I&#8217;m a lurker (I think that&#8217;s slightly less objectionable, right?).  As Rebecca intuited, I am an admirer and regular reader of this blog for a variety of reasons, and I was driven to comment on a post that elicited a strongly negative reaction in me, perhaps partly as a way to think through my own reaction, but also, I think, because I do feel a sort of investment in this blog as a discursive community.  (That probably means I ought to be commenting more, and under a real or at least consistent name &#8212; I get that now.)  I know that you don&#8217;t make any dough doing this, Historiann, and I agree that you don&#8217;t owe your readers anything, but I did think part of the motivation for blogging was to communicate with an audience and get reactions to one&#8217;s ideas.  If I had been less intemperate in my original comment, I would have restricted myself to saying only the below, which I think remains a valid (and, I hoped, constructive) point in the discussion you started Obama&#8217;s statement on the NYC mosque.</p>
<p>Just because some folks on the left find Obama’s statement laudable doesn’t mean they are “settling for crumbs.” No one on the left, including the writer quoted, is actually saying that, because Obama has made this statement, his entire presidency is therefore an unqualified success and he is absolved of responsibility to do anything else. *Certainly* no one is saying that because Obama has spoken for the first-amendment rights of Muslims, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell suddenly doesn’t need to be addressed. Maybe I misread what you mean be “settling for crumbs”; I think a reasonable gloss of that phrase would be, ‘accept something meager as a substitute for something more substantial and appropriate.’ But who ever said this statement was a substitute for something else? It’s just a thing in itself, which observers are free to evaluate on its merits. And though it certainly isn’t earth-shattering, or anything more than what a president should say in this circumstance, it is, on its own (albeit small) merits, laudable. Evaluating it as a substitute for other things that no actual person is comparing it to is intellectually insincere.</p>
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		<title>By: Profane</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689680</link>
		<dc:creator>Profane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689680</guid>
		<description>To add a concrete example to Koshem Boss&#039;s first post, building a Carmelite nunnery at Auschwitz.

This whole turn of events is disturbing on a number of levels - not only that an affirmation of basic 1st amendment rights is seen as courageous, but also that in the current (noxious) atmosphere, it is yet another illustration of the tin ear of the White House political operation. Ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To add a concrete example to Koshem Boss&#8217;s first post, building a Carmelite nunnery at Auschwitz.</p>
<p>This whole turn of events is disturbing on a number of levels &#8211; not only that an affirmation of basic 1st amendment rights is seen as courageous, but also that in the current (noxious) atmosphere, it is yet another illustration of the tin ear of the White House political operation. Ugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Z, the 2008 Kucinich Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689656</link>
		<dc:creator>Z, the 2008 Kucinich Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689656</guid>
		<description>Well, perhaps I give too much credit, but I live among the members of the Tea Party and &quot;Rapture Right&quot; and they are violent / irrational / intimidating, and what they have to say about Obama, race, Islam, African Americans and Arabs is scary. 

I keep thinking O. is moderating so as not to hurt the chances of Democratic candidates like Charlie Melancon, who might be able to replace David Vitter in the US Senate but will need Republican votes to do this. I can really see wisdom in that strategy if it is one.

At the same time Obama/Clinton are both Patriot Act fans so far as I can tell, and supporters of events such as the Honduran coup in addition to various other things, so I should stop feeling sorry for these Democrats and making excuses for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, perhaps I give too much credit, but I live among the members of the Tea Party and &#8220;Rapture Right&#8221; and they are violent / irrational / intimidating, and what they have to say about Obama, race, Islam, African Americans and Arabs is scary. </p>
<p>I keep thinking O. is moderating so as not to hurt the chances of Democratic candidates like Charlie Melancon, who might be able to replace David Vitter in the US Senate but will need Republican votes to do this. I can really see wisdom in that strategy if it is one.</p>
<p>At the same time Obama/Clinton are both Patriot Act fans so far as I can tell, and supporters of events such as the Honduran coup in addition to various other things, so I should stop feeling sorry for these Democrats and making excuses for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/08/14/profiles-in-courage/comment-page-1/#comment-689610</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=12150#comment-689610</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply, Rebecca.  

Concern trolls are commenters who come to a blog (usually in a hit-and-run) and express &quot;concern&quot; about the &quot;tone&quot; of a post, and pretend to be quite wounded by it all, usually while condescending to the blogger and/or other commenters and explaining that they *would* be in agreement with the ideas expressed if it weren&#039;t for all that unseemly &lt;i&gt;anger&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i&gt;aggression&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply, Rebecca.  </p>
<p>Concern trolls are commenters who come to a blog (usually in a hit-and-run) and express &#8220;concern&#8221; about the &#8220;tone&#8221; of a post, and pretend to be quite wounded by it all, usually while condescending to the blogger and/or other commenters and explaining that they *would* be in agreement with the ideas expressed if it weren&#8217;t for all that unseemly <i>anger</i> or <i>aggression</i>.</p>
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