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	<title>Comments on: Wow.</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: STNJ SPTP: Weeks 8-13 (The Final Installment &#8211; long overdue!) &#171; Emma Leigh Waldron</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-709381</link>
		<dc:creator>STNJ SPTP: Weeks 8-13 (The Final Installment &#8211; long overdue!) &#171; Emma Leigh Waldron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 03:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-709381</guid>
		<description>[...] having never suffered the ill effects of helicopter parenting myself, I am far less sympathetic to those who do struggle to make a decision, having never had to make one for themselves.  The abilities to be proactive, critical, and self-reliant are all good, but I’ll even settle [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] having never suffered the ill effects of helicopter parenting myself, I am far less sympathetic to those who do struggle to make a decision, having never had to make one for themselves.  The abilities to be proactive, critical, and self-reliant are all good, but I’ll even settle [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cville</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-675190</link>
		<dc:creator>Cville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-675190</guid>
		<description>I was first-gen student from a dirt-poor rural background; I went to college 400 miles way to Large Urban Univ.  I researched school myself, applied myself, got 2 jobs, got loans (for federal loans and Pell grants no parental signatures necessary), housing, budgeted, registered, etc.  I was completely on my own and I committed to sending money home to help out; not saying I did it all perfectly (I was homeless while attending classes for awhile).  I simply feel no connection to &#039;helicopter&#039; kids or parenting.  Of course my own race, class, gender, sexuality always inform my understanding of topics such as these.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was first-gen student from a dirt-poor rural background; I went to college 400 miles way to Large Urban Univ.  I researched school myself, applied myself, got 2 jobs, got loans (for federal loans and Pell grants no parental signatures necessary), housing, budgeted, registered, etc.  I was completely on my own and I committed to sending money home to help out; not saying I did it all perfectly (I was homeless while attending classes for awhile).  I simply feel no connection to &#8216;helicopter&#8217; kids or parenting.  Of course my own race, class, gender, sexuality always inform my understanding of topics such as these.</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade Svilova</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-671293</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade Svilova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-671293</guid>
		<description>In response to Rustonite, whose situation is very similar to what I&#039;ve experienced, I always wonder if the pressures to be &quot;a perfect mother&quot; are part of what compels my own mother to not acknowledge when her behavior is clearly out of line. What she sees as normal and just-doing-my-job-as-mom seems excessive to many other people. But a perfect mother won&#039;t just do what&#039;s good enough for other people, no? Perfect parents have to go above and beyond.

I don&#039;t know if the increasing emphasis on perfect parents is part of the helicopter parent phenomenon, but I could see it being connected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Rustonite, whose situation is very similar to what I&#8217;ve experienced, I always wonder if the pressures to be &#8220;a perfect mother&#8221; are part of what compels my own mother to not acknowledge when her behavior is clearly out of line. What she sees as normal and just-doing-my-job-as-mom seems excessive to many other people. But a perfect mother won&#8217;t just do what&#8217;s good enough for other people, no? Perfect parents have to go above and beyond.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if the increasing emphasis on perfect parents is part of the helicopter parent phenomenon, but I could see it being connected.</p>
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		<title>By: On No. 2 Pencils &#171; Shitty First Drafts</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-670680</link>
		<dc:creator>On No. 2 Pencils &#171; Shitty First Drafts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-670680</guid>
		<description>[...] approach to higher education before they darken the doors of our unis.&#8221; As Squadratomagico said in response to last week’s post, “Now I better understand the student who inquired, when I asked if there were any questions [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] approach to higher education before they darken the doors of our unis.&#8221; As Squadratomagico said in response to last week’s post, “Now I better understand the student who inquired, when I asked if there were any questions [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Helicoptering: what does it matter to faculty? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-670504</link>
		<dc:creator>Helicoptering: what does it matter to faculty? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-670504</guid>
		<description>[...] week&#8217;s discussion of helicopter parents inspired a lot of comments.  But, I felt a little bad about having started the conversation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week&#8217;s discussion of helicopter parents inspired a lot of comments.  But, I felt a little bad about having started the conversation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-670241</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-670241</guid>
		<description>What I find creepy is my friend who scours the Internet to look at bus maps in the faraway city where her son, who is over 21 lives, so as to exhort him to commute in the way she considers best.

In the IHE article, I thought it was a little weird that the mother was looking things up on the son&#039;s university website and sending him the links. I think making the suggestions she did was fine, I just wouldn&#039;t have done the actual footwork. Maybe just sending the links was faster than explaining that they would be there if he looked, though. My current department chair definitely assumes none of us are familiar with the university website, and always gives instructions; my bet is that it&#039;s because it&#039;s faster to head off all questions at the beginning; the mom is also an administrator and may have gotten into that mode.

But as regards the other phoning and so on, I think a lot of it is just because space-time have been changed since long distance phone calls became free. I remember people in college whose mothers phoned them long distance and every morning, and it was apron strings. Others sometimes extravagantly phoned their mothers for advice on cooking, and it was just love. In my family, we all had interrelated majors and we&#039;d phone each other to ask quick academic questions just because there was no Internet, the library and the professors&#039; offices were a trek away, and asking a friend could mean creating a social distraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find creepy is my friend who scours the Internet to look at bus maps in the faraway city where her son, who is over 21 lives, so as to exhort him to commute in the way she considers best.</p>
<p>In the IHE article, I thought it was a little weird that the mother was looking things up on the son&#8217;s university website and sending him the links. I think making the suggestions she did was fine, I just wouldn&#8217;t have done the actual footwork. Maybe just sending the links was faster than explaining that they would be there if he looked, though. My current department chair definitely assumes none of us are familiar with the university website, and always gives instructions; my bet is that it&#8217;s because it&#8217;s faster to head off all questions at the beginning; the mom is also an administrator and may have gotten into that mode.</p>
<p>But as regards the other phoning and so on, I think a lot of it is just because space-time have been changed since long distance phone calls became free. I remember people in college whose mothers phoned them long distance and every morning, and it was apron strings. Others sometimes extravagantly phoned their mothers for advice on cooking, and it was just love. In my family, we all had interrelated majors and we&#8217;d phone each other to ask quick academic questions just because there was no Internet, the library and the professors&#8217; offices were a trek away, and asking a friend could mean creating a social distraction.</p>
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		<title>By: Koop</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-669987</link>
		<dc:creator>Koop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-669987</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One would hope college would at least be a venue to “cut the cord”. Do kids these days not do household chores anymore either?&lt;/i&gt;

For perspective, when my father was in university (late 50s/early 60s @ large midwestern institution), students routinely &lt;i&gt;mailed their laundry home&lt;/i&gt;. The post office even had special boxes for this purpose. &lt;i&gt;In loco parentis&lt;/i&gt; rules also forbade students from having kitchens.  A lot of that changed after Vietnam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One would hope college would at least be a venue to “cut the cord”. Do kids these days not do household chores anymore either?</i></p>
<p>For perspective, when my father was in university (late 50s/early 60s @ large midwestern institution), students routinely <i>mailed their laundry home</i>. The post office even had special boxes for this purpose. <i>In loco parentis</i> rules also forbade students from having kitchens.  A lot of that changed after Vietnam.</p>
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		<title>By: CCPhysicist</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-669781</link>
		<dc:creator>CCPhysicist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-669781</guid>
		<description>Oh, I have to add one detail for Katrina.  I do know there are dorms (or subsets of dorms) that enforce curfews on visitors of the opposite sex, sort of in parallel to ones that are fully co-ed.  Alcohol control is much stricter now than it was when I went to college (even with the drinking age at 21).  But the days when students at a state university were required to have a wastebasket in the doorway if a girl was in the room (thus creating a market for crushed wastebaskets that allowed the door to close) and keep at least three feet on the floor at all times - those ended a couple years before I got to college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I have to add one detail for Katrina.  I do know there are dorms (or subsets of dorms) that enforce curfews on visitors of the opposite sex, sort of in parallel to ones that are fully co-ed.  Alcohol control is much stricter now than it was when I went to college (even with the drinking age at 21).  But the days when students at a state university were required to have a wastebasket in the doorway if a girl was in the room (thus creating a market for crushed wastebaskets that allowed the door to close) and keep at least three feet on the floor at all times &#8211; those ended a couple years before I got to college.</p>
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		<title>By: CCPhysicist</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-669779</link>
		<dc:creator>CCPhysicist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-669779</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think there are a lot of parents (mothers perhaps especially) who want to continue to feel needed by their children.&lt;/i&gt;

I have little doubt that this is the case for my sister-in-law, and there it has nothing to do with decreased family size. 

As for changes over time, I have seen the shift from &quot;in loco parentis&quot; (which ended just before I started college) to &quot;no parents&quot; to helicopters in my lifetime and I find it bizarre ... except that I can understand why my brother would want a bit more structure in his kids&#039; college experience than he had.  It might not be a coincidence that boomers had extreme freedom in college in the 70s and then watch their kids like mother hawks.  

That said, there were kids back in my day who had that need.  Some ran up their phone bill and some couldn&#039;t handle it and dropped out (but might have continued school at home).  They might survive today.  But the fine-grained supervision today (24/7 cell contact) is overkill even if I do wonder how I ever managed to go grocery shopping in pre-cell days!  

Of course, some of that detail directed toward the parents might also be a way of creating the illusion that the parents know everything that is going on.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think there are a lot of parents (mothers perhaps especially) who want to continue to feel needed by their children.</i></p>
<p>I have little doubt that this is the case for my sister-in-law, and there it has nothing to do with decreased family size. </p>
<p>As for changes over time, I have seen the shift from &#8220;in loco parentis&#8221; (which ended just before I started college) to &#8220;no parents&#8221; to helicopters in my lifetime and I find it bizarre &#8230; except that I can understand why my brother would want a bit more structure in his kids&#8217; college experience than he had.  It might not be a coincidence that boomers had extreme freedom in college in the 70s and then watch their kids like mother hawks.  </p>
<p>That said, there were kids back in my day who had that need.  Some ran up their phone bill and some couldn&#8217;t handle it and dropped out (but might have continued school at home).  They might survive today.  But the fine-grained supervision today (24/7 cell contact) is overkill even if I do wonder how I ever managed to go grocery shopping in pre-cell days!  </p>
<p>Of course, some of that detail directed toward the parents might also be a way of creating the illusion that the parents know everything that is going on&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: thefrogprincess</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/07/16/wow/comment-page-2/#comment-669539</link>
		<dc:creator>thefrogprincess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11767#comment-669539</guid>
		<description>This is funny b/c my parents&#039; view was that my homework took priority and so I did very little housework growing up. (There was also something about my mother&#039;s mother forcing her to do all the housework and so my mother didn&#039;t want to repeat that.) BUT even if I didn&#039;t do much housework, I knew how to do everything: wash dishes (and we didn&#039;t have a dishwasher), wash and iron clothes, mop, some basic cooking, etc. And the clear idea was that when I left the house for college, I would know how to do all the basics and I think that&#039;s incredibly valuable.

(A brief anecdote: a few years back, I spent a few days in London and stayed at the apartment of a college friend, who had spent a few years working in finance in New York and then had moved to London. After eating some food, I went to wash the dishes and filled up the sink with dishwater. My friend then came over and asked me how I had done that; he had probably washed individual pieces under running water, I&#039;m assuming, but had never filled up a sink with warm, soapy water. We were 25.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is funny b/c my parents&#8217; view was that my homework took priority and so I did very little housework growing up. (There was also something about my mother&#8217;s mother forcing her to do all the housework and so my mother didn&#8217;t want to repeat that.) BUT even if I didn&#8217;t do much housework, I knew how to do everything: wash dishes (and we didn&#8217;t have a dishwasher), wash and iron clothes, mop, some basic cooking, etc. And the clear idea was that when I left the house for college, I would know how to do all the basics and I think that&#8217;s incredibly valuable.</p>
<p>(A brief anecdote: a few years back, I spent a few days in London and stayed at the apartment of a college friend, who had spent a few years working in finance in New York and then had moved to London. After eating some food, I went to wash the dishes and filled up the sink with dishwater. My friend then came over and asked me how I had done that; he had probably washed individual pieces under running water, I&#8217;m assuming, but had never filled up a sink with warm, soapy water. We were 25.)</p>
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