Comments on: What’s he got that you haven’t got, Logan? Gender, access, and the doodliness of war http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Tue, 30 Sep 2014 03:56:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-658636 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:40:37 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-658636 Courtesy of the Dilbert author:

What’s the new definition of Taliban?

Anybody who lives over a lithium deposit.

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By: Z http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-658080 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 05:57:48 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-658080 Re the minerals announcement, I am quite sure I had read about that treasure trove some time before the fanfared announcement. That doesn’t mean the announcement wasn’t a result of Mayberryism … remember, Congress voted to declare war on Iraq when the fakeness of the research about depleted uranium had already been in the news, and yet they said they’d been “misled” (meaning they weren’t very well up on things). And I thought an informed citizenry, etc., but ah well.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-658004 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:19:19 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-658004 Heh. I had the same suspicions about McChrystal as you, rootlesscosmo, but I think you’re right: “it’s hard to credit this jerk with some wily political strategy.” With Machiavellians like this, who needs enemies? I think their openness to Hastings speaks to the obvious contempt they have for everyone else involved with Afghanistan strategy, and to the fact that they think no one else is watching or even cares.

Oh for the days of The Quiet American! Even that chucklehead is preferable to these “Team America” clowns.

Z: one wonders about the timing of the announcement about the minerals, doesn’t one? But as suggested above by rootlesscosmo, it might be too much to credit them with Machiavellianism when Mayberry is a likelier explanation. . .

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By: rootlesscosmo http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657989 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:08:06 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657989 Not having seen long excerpts from the RS article before now, I was indulging wild notions that McC had set up the White House reproof by way of positioning himself for a Republican Presidential run in 2012 (the masculinist campaign theme practically writes itself.) But I hadn’t realized what a knucklehead he is. Of course that didn’t stop Bush II, but it’s hard to credit this jerk with some wily political strategy. He could be following somebody else’s script, like Reagan, but even Reagan had better sense than to get hammered with a reporter in the room.

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By: Z http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657935 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:22:00 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657935 Well – when I read the RS article, I wasn’t surprised at McChrystal; that is how many military and oilfield personnel talk. Probably a few other groups do, as well, but I haven’t heard them do it in person, as I have these two groups. I figured The Author had indicated to them this was acceptable behavior and fun for him, too; otherwise they’d have cut it out while he was there (they know how to cut it out, too). What was really telling in the RS article was the comments thread — a McChrystal admiration society.

My concern, though, is that we’re there in the first place, and the oil and minerals that are there and whose presence suggests we’ll never leave; and more than that, the counterinsurgency strategy and Obama’s commitment to it, and Clinton’s.

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By: koshem Bos http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657923 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 02:28:25 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657923 A military in a country worshiping war and generals must be controlled by the civilian government. We have presidents that the military despises, including Bush II; controlling calls for tough president which we didn’t have for quite a while.

MacCrystal’s arrogance and stupidity has helped in this case. Petraeus may not be much better. After all, “he wrote the book on anti insurgency,” according to current legend, that was written in the past many times before (David Galula, B. H. Liddell Hart, Roger Trinquier, etc all preceded our local legend).

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By: Indyanna http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657868 Wed, 30 Jun 2010 00:49:41 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657868 Most definitely on the “overdeterminism” front, Historiann. That’s what they’ll always say. The American revolutionary and immediate post-revolutionary soldiers who I studied had endless issues around masculinity, gender, and in their case, women, but their actual and specific mentalities would not have been cognizible in Camp McCrystal, from the way this article reads. And I don’t think they would have been cognizible around Pequotia, Wabanakia, or the several places you studied, either. That’s what studying-up is all about; the intersection of the universal and the contingent, right?

I think military institutions in their academic aspect may be trying to comprehend this. Our military historian is a product of that seminar. But it’s a long slow slog, always fighting the last cultural wars. Besides, if a guy is face-down in the shower on a spent case of beer, he’s probably not going to catch too many classes.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657679 Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:50:07 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657679 Oh, and p.s. to Indyanna: McChrystal announced his retirement yesterday (via TalkLeft.) I’m sure he’ll either soon be on the lucrative speech circuit, or maybe take a paid gig doing military analysis at a network (or both.)

Either way, he’ll do just fine. (Which is really too bad, given his disastrous record and his disgraceful departure.) He’s a guy who’s coasted through on connections and some kind of charisma–whereas most of the rest of us never would have cleared Lieutenant if we behaved the way he did.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657677 Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:46:22 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657677 Right on. I agree with both Emma and Tanya in the diagnosis of the Lost Boys in particular and of the military in general. (I’ve heard that the program at WP is a good one–the guy who taught the required American military history course at Baa Ram U. for the past 8 years took it earlier in the decade, and he said that it was time well spent. But, I certainly take your point about the tokenism of the discussion of the integration issues.)

I ran into this problem when (12-13 years ago?) I gave some talks that became the idea for my first book. I was informed that my questions about gender and warfare were completely overdetermined: “Of course warfare is about masculinity, so much so that we don’t need you poking into it, you snippy little feminist.”

There may also be a cult of McChrystal going on among the Lost Boys in the Hastings article. But, the d00dliness of it all practically slaps you in the face with the “fag” comment on page 1. Now, that would be some pretty awesome a$$hattery even if not performed in front of a reporter, or at the least off the record. But, it’s seriously AWESOME! on the record!

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By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/29/whats-he-got-that-you-havent-got-lara-gender-access-and-the-doodliness-of-war/comment-page-1/#comment-657659 Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:15:32 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=11510#comment-657659 but what we’re really talking about here seems to be a cult of masculinity within the military. What a boys club! (And yet, none of them want to see this or discuss it.)

The military is the cult of masculinity. There’s no reason to discuss it for the same reason fish don’t discuss water.

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