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	<title>Comments on: Notes from the class of 1960, Dartmouth College</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-654762</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-654762</guid>
		<description>Geez, Comrade, upset? Pre-judge students much?  The question on the floor was &quot;why do students seem to need more handholding like asking for very specific directions about what color inks they can or can&#039;t use.&quot;  Nobody said a word about them complaining.  But hey if having and enforcing arbitrary rules is your thing, go for it.  If giving zeros because somebody used the wrong font size, but don&#039;t dare complain about the student&#039;s work being boring and all the same because you are the one setting up the expectations that form is more important than content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, Comrade, upset? Pre-judge students much?  The question on the floor was &#8220;why do students seem to need more handholding like asking for very specific directions about what color inks they can or can&#8217;t use.&#8221;  Nobody said a word about them complaining.  But hey if having and enforcing arbitrary rules is your thing, go for it.  If giving zeros because somebody used the wrong font size, but don&#8217;t dare complain about the student&#8217;s work being boring and all the same because you are the one setting up the expectations that form is more important than content.</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade PhysioProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-654432</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade PhysioProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 17:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-654432</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Stuff like that used to drive me batshit crazy as a student, so I don’t do it as a teacher, but I can understand why gets get bent about it. Who wants to have their assignment get a zero because they wrote in black ink instead of blue? (And yes, there are HS teachers like that). So in that sense, it’s not hand-holding, it’s self-protection.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know what? These little pissants may as well start growing the fuck up. Because in the real world, no one gives a flying fuck about whatever excuse you throw out there for your failure to follow instructions, meet deadlines, follow through with duties, etc. There are plenty of people who do those things, and thus there is absofuckinglutely no reason to waste even a nanosecond attending to bullshit excuse-making by those who don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Stuff like that used to drive me batshit crazy as a student, so I don’t do it as a teacher, but I can understand why gets get bent about it. Who wants to have their assignment get a zero because they wrote in black ink instead of blue? (And yes, there are HS teachers like that). So in that sense, it’s not hand-holding, it’s self-protection.</p></blockquote>
<p>You know what? These little pissants may as well start growing the fuck up. Because in the real world, no one gives a flying fuck about whatever excuse you throw out there for your failure to follow instructions, meet deadlines, follow through with duties, etc. There are plenty of people who do those things, and thus there is absofuckinglutely no reason to waste even a nanosecond attending to bullshit excuse-making by those who don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Western Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-653444</link>
		<dc:creator>Western Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-653444</guid>
		<description>On independence and creativity in students -

So my 9th graders and some of the 10th graders ask &quot;does this need to be in blue pen&quot; or &quot;can I use pencil.&quot;  Seniors rarely ask after the first assignment.  They ask because in middle school the teachers are very particular about that sort of thing.  Even some Upper School teachers go ballistic if certain instructions are followed down to the smallest details (points off for improper line spacing on a title page for example).  Stuff like that used to drive me batshit crazy as a student, so I don&#039;t do it as a teacher, but I can understand why gets get bent about it.  Who wants to have their assignment get a zero because they wrote in black ink instead of blue?  (And yes, there are HS teachers like that).  So in that sense, it&#039;s not hand-holding, it&#039;s self-protection.  

But, in my honors classes, I used to always have one or two kids out of 18 who wouldn&#039;t risk being wrong in an essay.  They would only write stuff that they knew was absolutely right.  Sometimes, this kid was from a Catholic school, and they got over it pretty quick once they saw that as long as the facts checked out, plausible arguments were okay. But other kids, mo matter how many times I came at them with &quot;all the great historians were wrong,&quot; or &quot;until you take some risks, you&#039;re grade is going to be stuck in the B-range&quot; or whatever other trick phrases I have, just couldn&#039;t break through.  

So in the last year or two, that&#039;s jumped to maybe 4 or 5 kids stuck in that spot.  It&#039;s weird, because there&#039;s been a massive push towards more creative projects in the school as a whole (documentary making using laptops, blogging, podcasting, etc.) but it seems like unless a project is billed as a creative project, they don&#039;t dare get creative.  This year, my 9th graders did some of the best poetry in the style of Tang and Song dynasties ever and their Courtly Love stories/poems/sonnets etc.  were outstanding.  But the comparative essays on who was more influential, Byzantium or Sassanid Persia?  blech. There&#039;s a limited amount of evidence, so you might have to do a counter-example paragraph.  The point of the essay is to decide on the criteria for what counts as influential.  Instead, a lot of kids went nuts looking for evidence on line (and one of them even got caught up plagiarizing).  They just weren&#039;t comfortable deciding for themselves what the criteria should be. Given how strong the class was overall, it was disappointing.  Although, some of it came because this was a very grade conscious (although not grade-grubbing) group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On independence and creativity in students -</p>
<p>So my 9th graders and some of the 10th graders ask &#8220;does this need to be in blue pen&#8221; or &#8220;can I use pencil.&#8221;  Seniors rarely ask after the first assignment.  They ask because in middle school the teachers are very particular about that sort of thing.  Even some Upper School teachers go ballistic if certain instructions are followed down to the smallest details (points off for improper line spacing on a title page for example).  Stuff like that used to drive me batshit crazy as a student, so I don&#8217;t do it as a teacher, but I can understand why gets get bent about it.  Who wants to have their assignment get a zero because they wrote in black ink instead of blue?  (And yes, there are HS teachers like that).  So in that sense, it&#8217;s not hand-holding, it&#8217;s self-protection.  </p>
<p>But, in my honors classes, I used to always have one or two kids out of 18 who wouldn&#8217;t risk being wrong in an essay.  They would only write stuff that they knew was absolutely right.  Sometimes, this kid was from a Catholic school, and they got over it pretty quick once they saw that as long as the facts checked out, plausible arguments were okay. But other kids, mo matter how many times I came at them with &#8220;all the great historians were wrong,&#8221; or &#8220;until you take some risks, you&#8217;re grade is going to be stuck in the B-range&#8221; or whatever other trick phrases I have, just couldn&#8217;t break through.  </p>
<p>So in the last year or two, that&#8217;s jumped to maybe 4 or 5 kids stuck in that spot.  It&#8217;s weird, because there&#8217;s been a massive push towards more creative projects in the school as a whole (documentary making using laptops, blogging, podcasting, etc.) but it seems like unless a project is billed as a creative project, they don&#8217;t dare get creative.  This year, my 9th graders did some of the best poetry in the style of Tang and Song dynasties ever and their Courtly Love stories/poems/sonnets etc.  were outstanding.  But the comparative essays on who was more influential, Byzantium or Sassanid Persia?  blech. There&#8217;s a limited amount of evidence, so you might have to do a counter-example paragraph.  The point of the essay is to decide on the criteria for what counts as influential.  Instead, a lot of kids went nuts looking for evidence on line (and one of them even got caught up plagiarizing).  They just weren&#8217;t comfortable deciding for themselves what the criteria should be. Given how strong the class was overall, it was disappointing.  Although, some of it came because this was a very grade conscious (although not grade-grubbing) group.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt L</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-653291</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-653291</guid>
		<description>No high school reunion. No college reunion. Ever. I won&#039;t say never, because you never know (I would like to see how my high school classmates turned out there were a couple that are probably really interesting, if they reached adulthood).  

I am still in touch with my college classmates who are historians! 

I liked the reflections in the guest post. I kind of wish my college experience had been like that. I would like my students at Woebegone State to have a Great Issues class or lecture series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No high school reunion. No college reunion. Ever. I won&#8217;t say never, because you never know (I would like to see how my high school classmates turned out there were a couple that are probably really interesting, if they reached adulthood).  </p>
<p>I am still in touch with my college classmates who are historians! </p>
<p>I liked the reflections in the guest post. I kind of wish my college experience had been like that. I would like my students at Woebegone State to have a Great Issues class or lecture series.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-653241</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-653241</guid>
		<description>No joke on the expense side, Z.  I think I paid something like $500+ for myself and another family member to attend.  Now, that included lodging and food (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and cocktail parties) for two full days, so overall a pretty good deal for what we got but a lot of people don&#039;t have that kind of coin, plus travel expenses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No joke on the expense side, Z.  I think I paid something like $500+ for myself and another family member to attend.  Now, that included lodging and food (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and cocktail parties) for two full days, so overall a pretty good deal for what we got but a lot of people don&#8217;t have that kind of coin, plus travel expenses.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-652657</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 02:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-652657</guid>
		<description>Well ... most of the people from college I want to see, I do see, and those I would hope to re-find, didn&#039;t graduate in my same year, so a reunion would be futile. And grad school reunions, well, conferences do that (almost too much).

I would go to a renunion of my college dorm, though, which was a hilarious place, and they do have reunions. It&#039;s the timing and the expense that stops me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well &#8230; most of the people from college I want to see, I do see, and those I would hope to re-find, didn&#8217;t graduate in my same year, so a reunion would be futile. And grad school reunions, well, conferences do that (almost too much).</p>
<p>I would go to a renunion of my college dorm, though, which was a hilarious place, and they do have reunions. It&#8217;s the timing and the expense that stops me.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-652550</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-652550</guid>
		<description>Indyanna: I don&#039;t know how to interpret this, but, a year ago, my five year reunion class beat all previous five-year reunion class records for giving--something that worked out, I think, to a thousand dollars per student over five years.  Much of that was during the pre-collapse period, though, when a ton of my classmates were employed in the financial sector, and making a pretty penny.  (But a lot of us were in med school, or law school, and even a few in grad school, so IDK.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indyanna: I don&#8217;t know how to interpret this, but, a year ago, my five year reunion class beat all previous five-year reunion class records for giving&#8211;something that worked out, I think, to a thousand dollars per student over five years.  Much of that was during the pre-collapse period, though, when a ton of my classmates were employed in the financial sector, and making a pretty penny.  (But a lot of us were in med school, or law school, and even a few in grad school, so IDK.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kathie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-652406</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-652406</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m heading back to my high school reunion this summer - and have gone to a couple of previous ones.  Those have been fun because many of the people in my class were friends and classmates from kindergarten on, and we&#039;ve had a high-functioning listserv for over a decade, so we share a lot of history.  

But college ... for undergrad I went to a Big 10, where they didn&#039;t even read our names individually at our graduation.  &quot;Class of 19xx, College of Arts and Sciences, please rise!&quot;  Boo.  But a couple of years ago I did go back (halfway across the country) to the reunion of an interest group that I had been part of; the gathering was organized almost completely outside the realms of the U., and I see that the U. is now also fostering smaller interest-based reunions within the giant all-campus reunion events.  Our particular group is planning another reunion as part of the larger university event next year. I think that is the way to go in the bigger schools, where I can also say I can&#039;t recall 5 names - or even 3 - of those who shared my major.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m heading back to my high school reunion this summer &#8211; and have gone to a couple of previous ones.  Those have been fun because many of the people in my class were friends and classmates from kindergarten on, and we&#8217;ve had a high-functioning listserv for over a decade, so we share a lot of history.  </p>
<p>But college &#8230; for undergrad I went to a Big 10, where they didn&#8217;t even read our names individually at our graduation.  &#8220;Class of 19xx, College of Arts and Sciences, please rise!&#8221;  Boo.  But a couple of years ago I did go back (halfway across the country) to the reunion of an interest group that I had been part of; the gathering was organized almost completely outside the realms of the U., and I see that the U. is now also fostering smaller interest-based reunions within the giant all-campus reunion events.  Our particular group is planning another reunion as part of the larger university event next year. I think that is the way to go in the bigger schools, where I can also say I can&#8217;t recall 5 names &#8211; or even 3 &#8211; of those who shared my major.</p>
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		<title>By: Comrade PhysioProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-652405</link>
		<dc:creator>Comrade PhysioProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-652405</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Alcohol abuse was a problem; weed and street drugs were non-existant.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

College without weed????? That&#039;s fucking fucked up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Alcohol abuse was a problem; weed and street drugs were non-existant.</p></blockquote>
<p>College without weed????? That&#8217;s fucking fucked up!</p>
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		<title>By: cgeye</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/06/23/notes-from-the-class-of-1960-dartmouth-college/comment-page-1/#comment-652355</link>
		<dc:creator>cgeye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 18:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=11461#comment-652355</guid>
		<description>Adlai, not Adelaide....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adlai, not Adelaide&#8230;.</p>
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