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	<title>Comments on: The Line, a film by Nancy Schwartzman</title>
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	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Links &#171; Stuff</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-576097</link>
		<dc:creator>Links &#171; Stuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-576097</guid>
		<description>[...] The Line, a film by Nancy Schwartzman. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Line, a film by Nancy Schwartzman. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Schwartzman</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-575247</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Schwartzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-575247</guid>
		<description>Hi there! Sorry, I took a weekend off, and look what I missed... alas!

@Ohands thanks for checking in, and for providing great resources for false statistics. We always collude with the abuser, whether he/she be a bully, stalker or a rapist. Are you &quot;abyss2hope&quot;? Bc I met you at WAM!2009 briefly and follow you on twitter, I&#039;m @thelinecampaign. 

@Emma, I completely agree - this dialogue needs to continue harder, fiercer and stronger than ever before. Not only are we reminded of this &quot;man&#039;s world&quot; (sad and funny that it went from a James Brown song to a LensCrafters commercial) but the whole notion of sisterhood is trashed in pretty much every show marketed to tweens and young women. 

However, Lenscrafters is clinging to nostalgic vestiges of the past - according to the NYTimes recent (ridiculous) article &quot;The New Math&quot; women are far surpassing their male peers in higher education, etc. NYT misses the boat and decides to focus on how sad and sorry it is that women are fighting over men in college, and my intern Carmen wrote a great counter post here, check it out:
http://whereisyourline.org/2010/02/calling-bullshit-on-the-new-math/

Charm, sure, brains, hard work and achievement, you&#039;re damn sure. The more I can get my film out, the more those potential jury members sitting in the audience get a better education about consent and survivor experience. The more we choose to watch and create media that while entertaining, sexy, compelling is also egalitarian and respectful - the more we can continue to change the tide.

Please do visit the site, sign up for our RSS feed and contribute your thoughts. We discuss consent, boundaries and corporate media bullsh*t alot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there! Sorry, I took a weekend off, and look what I missed&#8230; alas!</p>
<p>@Ohands thanks for checking in, and for providing great resources for false statistics. We always collude with the abuser, whether he/she be a bully, stalker or a rapist. Are you &#8220;abyss2hope&#8221;? Bc I met you at WAM!2009 briefly and follow you on twitter, I&#8217;m @thelinecampaign. </p>
<p>@Emma, I completely agree &#8211; this dialogue needs to continue harder, fiercer and stronger than ever before. Not only are we reminded of this &#8220;man&#8217;s world&#8221; (sad and funny that it went from a James Brown song to a LensCrafters commercial) but the whole notion of sisterhood is trashed in pretty much every show marketed to tweens and young women. </p>
<p>However, Lenscrafters is clinging to nostalgic vestiges of the past &#8211; according to the NYTimes recent (ridiculous) article &#8220;The New Math&#8221; women are far surpassing their male peers in higher education, etc. NYT misses the boat and decides to focus on how sad and sorry it is that women are fighting over men in college, and my intern Carmen wrote a great counter post here, check it out:<br />
<a href="http://whereisyourline.org/2010/02/calling-bullshit-on-the-new-math/" rel="nofollow">http://whereisyourline.org/2010/02/calling-bullshit-on-the-new-math/</a></p>
<p>Charm, sure, brains, hard work and achievement, you&#8217;re damn sure. The more I can get my film out, the more those potential jury members sitting in the audience get a better education about consent and survivor experience. The more we choose to watch and create media that while entertaining, sexy, compelling is also egalitarian and respectful &#8211; the more we can continue to change the tide.</p>
<p>Please do visit the site, sign up for our RSS feed and contribute your thoughts. We discuss consent, boundaries and corporate media bullsh*t alot!</p>
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		<title>By: emma rosenthal</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-574806</link>
		<dc:creator>emma rosenthal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 13:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-574806</guid>
		<description>i considered attending antioch college, but not only were their dorms coed, their locker room style showers were too-- that is, several shower heads in the same room, no curtains.  it never occurred to me to ask if there were other dorm options (and i think it strange that this was the dorm i was given to stay in, as a high school student visiting a school!) BUT in all other situations in my life, when i&#039;ve found myself in  a shower with someone else, there has been a series of events leading up to that encounter, and an understanding of consent based on those prior events.  on a campus where men and women who may not even have exchanged first names, find themselves naked in a shower, to the same extent that they might find themselves sitting next to each other in class, or in line at the cafeteria, such a protocol for determining consent may not seem so out of place.  

i would find the request for consent at each move, tedious and uninspiring and i would hope that women would have other ways of establishing their boundaries (starting with doors or at least curtains on shower stalls!!!)  

i do think the dialogue on gender, the rights of women, the autonomy of our bodies has declined tremendously and that we have to revive the dialogue on women&#039;s rights all over again.  

the displays in lenscrafters for men reads: it&#039;s a man&#039;s world.  for women: &quot;a woman&#039;s charm&quot; 

in a world where we are expected to charm to make our way in a man&#039;s world, how can we expected to also adequately have the social capital to even begin to consent? in what context?  with what power?  

we also have to reestablish the sisterhood, so that women have each others&#039; back.  undermining consent and dismissing rape should be unthinkable and should come with social consequences of their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i considered attending antioch college, but not only were their dorms coed, their locker room style showers were too&#8211; that is, several shower heads in the same room, no curtains.  it never occurred to me to ask if there were other dorm options (and i think it strange that this was the dorm i was given to stay in, as a high school student visiting a school!) BUT in all other situations in my life, when i&#8217;ve found myself in  a shower with someone else, there has been a series of events leading up to that encounter, and an understanding of consent based on those prior events.  on a campus where men and women who may not even have exchanged first names, find themselves naked in a shower, to the same extent that they might find themselves sitting next to each other in class, or in line at the cafeteria, such a protocol for determining consent may not seem so out of place.  </p>
<p>i would find the request for consent at each move, tedious and uninspiring and i would hope that women would have other ways of establishing their boundaries (starting with doors or at least curtains on shower stalls!!!)  </p>
<p>i do think the dialogue on gender, the rights of women, the autonomy of our bodies has declined tremendously and that we have to revive the dialogue on women&#8217;s rights all over again.  </p>
<p>the displays in lenscrafters for men reads: it&#8217;s a man&#8217;s world.  for women: &#8220;a woman&#8217;s charm&#8221; </p>
<p>in a world where we are expected to charm to make our way in a man&#8217;s world, how can we expected to also adequately have the social capital to even begin to consent? in what context?  with what power?  </p>
<p>we also have to reestablish the sisterhood, so that women have each others&#8217; back.  undermining consent and dismissing rape should be unthinkable and should come with social consequences of their own.</p>
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		<title>By: hysperia</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-574790</link>
		<dc:creator>hysperia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-574790</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the best discussion on this issue that I have ever seen. Thanks to all and I hope I get to see Nancy&#039;s movie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the best discussion on this issue that I have ever seen. Thanks to all and I hope I get to see Nancy&#8217;s movie.</p>
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		<title>By: Hidden Camera: Accused remanded &#171; Asianetindia.com Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-574533</link>
		<dc:creator>Hidden Camera: Accused remanded &#171; Asianetindia.com Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 01:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-574533</guid>
		<description>[...] The Line, a film by Nancy Schwartzman : Historiann : History and &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Line, a film by Nancy Schwartzman : Historiann : History and &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-574008</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 00:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-574008</guid>
		<description>Welcome readers and commenters from Shakesville.  I won&#039;t be around much over the next few days to respond to comments, but perhaps Nancy (the filmmaker) will check in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome readers and commenters from Shakesville.  I won&#8217;t be around much over the next few days to respond to comments, but perhaps Nancy (the filmmaker) will check in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jet</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-573994</link>
		<dc:creator>Jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-573994</guid>
		<description>Excellent post and great comment thread. Glad I found your blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post and great comment thread. Glad I found your blog!</p>
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		<title>By: ohands</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-573943</link>
		<dc:creator>ohands</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-573943</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m so glad this movie was made. I probably wont see it since this post on it was trigger-y for me, but I&#039;m so glad its out there.

Less than 1% of reported rapes are false accusations. Usually statistics used that have the percentage higher than 2% ignore that 
 
- that &quot;false&quot; can be based on the cops&#039; opinions of the situation/who the victim was and what she was doing at the time of the rape
- withdrawals of a reported rape (because of fear, shame, coercion, scare tactics, etc) can count as a &quot;false accusation&quot; 
- the methodology used to collect the data is usually way off (from not counting all the reported rapes that are turned aside immediately to what is being used to decide if it is false to using polygraphs to using a certain subset of victims to...well, etc for sure)
- that certain rapes are still treated as if they are not rape
- that society treats rape victims as inherently suspect and rapists as good, moral, probably innocent people
- if you&#039;re interested &lt;a href=&quot;http://abyss2hope.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; abyss2hope has a lot of information about this&lt;/a&gt;

I think we get the idea that there are so many false accusations of rape because on &lt;i&gt;TV shows and movies&lt;/i&gt; there are a lot of false accusations at a much higher statistic than in reality.

Added to that, news media report almost every instance of false accusations but do not come even close to talking about the amount of rapes that happen. If we just listened to the news media, a lot of men are being falsely accused and every once in awhile a person in authority (Church, doctors, etc) commits rape, which is a totally isolated case each time.  

The media presentation of false rapes is so much higher than the reality of false rapes. The media perpetrates myths about rape, and this is one facet of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad this movie was made. I probably wont see it since this post on it was trigger-y for me, but I&#8217;m so glad its out there.</p>
<p>Less than 1% of reported rapes are false accusations. Usually statistics used that have the percentage higher than 2% ignore that </p>
<p>- that &#8220;false&#8221; can be based on the cops&#8217; opinions of the situation/who the victim was and what she was doing at the time of the rape<br />
- withdrawals of a reported rape (because of fear, shame, coercion, scare tactics, etc) can count as a &#8220;false accusation&#8221;<br />
- the methodology used to collect the data is usually way off (from not counting all the reported rapes that are turned aside immediately to what is being used to decide if it is false to using polygraphs to using a certain subset of victims to&#8230;well, etc for sure)<br />
- that certain rapes are still treated as if they are not rape<br />
- that society treats rape victims as inherently suspect and rapists as good, moral, probably innocent people<br />
- if you&#8217;re interested <a href="http://abyss2hope.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"> abyss2hope has a lot of information about this</a></p>
<p>I think we get the idea that there are so many false accusations of rape because on <i>TV shows and movies</i> there are a lot of false accusations at a much higher statistic than in reality.</p>
<p>Added to that, news media report almost every instance of false accusations but do not come even close to talking about the amount of rapes that happen. If we just listened to the news media, a lot of men are being falsely accused and every once in awhile a person in authority (Church, doctors, etc) commits rape, which is a totally isolated case each time.  </p>
<p>The media presentation of false rapes is so much higher than the reality of false rapes. The media perpetrates myths about rape, and this is one facet of that.</p>
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		<title>By: fannie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-573367</link>
		<dc:creator>fannie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-573367</guid>
		<description>Actually, I disagree that my interpretation is &quot;off.&quot;  I was referring to the appellate opinion, wherein one of the issues was whether the trial court erred in its jury instruction that it should return a verdict of guilty for rape if it was persuaded that the witness consented to sex but withdrew her consent after penetration.  I see that as another way of asking whether &quot;consent&quot; involves the right to withdraw that consent during sex after penetration.   

Anyway, I can see that this conversation is becoming unnecessarily argumentative.  My impression is that we&#039;re talking in circles, perhaps saying the same thing in different ways, due to my own miscommunication or mutual misunderstanding, so I&#039;m going to step away so as not to further derail this post.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I disagree that my interpretation is &#8220;off.&#8221;  I was referring to the appellate opinion, wherein one of the issues was whether the trial court erred in its jury instruction that it should return a verdict of guilty for rape if it was persuaded that the witness consented to sex but withdrew her consent after penetration.  I see that as another way of asking whether &#8220;consent&#8221; involves the right to withdraw that consent during sex after penetration.   </p>
<p>Anyway, I can see that this conversation is becoming unnecessarily argumentative.  My impression is that we&#8217;re talking in circles, perhaps saying the same thing in different ways, due to my own miscommunication or mutual misunderstanding, so I&#8217;m going to step away so as not to further derail this post.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2010/03/09/the-line-a-film-by-nancy-schwartzman/comment-page-1/#comment-573323</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 15:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=9937#comment-573323</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re a bit off in your interpretation of the lower court opinion.  Rather, the opinion turned on the definition of rape - penetration - and its interaction with consent.  It didn&#039;t really have anything to do with consent to &quot;sex&quot; or &quot;sexual intercourse&quot; or &quot;the sex act&quot;.  It&#039;s either rape or consensual at the moment of penetration.  Everything after that was inconsequential to the law of rape as applied by the lower court.

You&#039;re correct, the lower court did (impermissibly) look to common law to interpret/apply Md&#039;s rape statute.  

At the end of the day, though, Maryland&#039;s highest court overturned the lower court and remanded for a new trial with the jury instruction that consent could be withdrawn during intercourse.  So, that&#039;s what the law in Md is.  I think it&#039;s a good idea to draw attention not just to the outrages, but to when those outrages have been fixed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re a bit off in your interpretation of the lower court opinion.  Rather, the opinion turned on the definition of rape &#8211; penetration &#8211; and its interaction with consent.  It didn&#8217;t really have anything to do with consent to &#8220;sex&#8221; or &#8220;sexual intercourse&#8221; or &#8220;the sex act&#8221;.  It&#8217;s either rape or consensual at the moment of penetration.  Everything after that was inconsequential to the law of rape as applied by the lower court.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re correct, the lower court did (impermissibly) look to common law to interpret/apply Md&#8217;s rape statute.  </p>
<p>At the end of the day, though, Maryland&#8217;s highest court overturned the lower court and remanded for a new trial with the jury instruction that consent could be withdrawn during intercourse.  So, that&#8217;s what the law in Md is.  I think it&#8217;s a good idea to draw attention not just to the outrages, but to when those outrages have been fixed.</p>
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