Posted under: jobs, students, wankers
h/t GayProf at Center of Gravitas
Go read Squadratomagico’s post from last night, “A Rant about Entitled Slackers.” (After Radio Silence, three posts in three days!) She also has a nice memorial to Alexander McQueen, who sadly was found dead at age 40 by his own hand in London this morning, just days after his mother’s death. But–I digress. Back to slackers.
The slacker-dude she writes about in part one of her post is such a familiar character. (Aren’t they always the special pleaders? Funny how they never seem to have an A- or B-average.) That’s the kind of person who really pissed me off even as a student–because I thought that ze might be getting away with it! It infuriated me that professors seemed so blithely clueless about the scam artists they were dealing with. Were the honest plodders like me working too hard, when we could be on easy street? It just didn’t seem fair.
Well, having made the leap to the other side of the lecture podium nearly 15 years ago, one of the most satisfying things I’ve learned as a Professor is that Slacky McSlackslack didn’t get away with anything. My professionalism–like that of my mentors 20+ years ago–prevents me from rolling my eyes and responding sarcastically to those special pleaders who were apparently unable to follow the simplest instructions for an assignment–such as how to submit it. Professionalism demands that I nod gravely and smile blandly instead, and so I nod and smile away. Trust us, honest plodders: you’ll get what you deserve, which is an honest grade and our respect, and so will the slackers. Minus our respect, of course. (Not that they care about that!)
koshem Bos on 11 Feb 2010 at 12:58 pm #
The service model of teacher/student relationship appeals to me. Respect has only a tiny roll in that model. Teachers provide material, have tests and have out of class exchange of explanation, one on one exchnages and by electronicly. It’s typical to hear in my office the following; “you see, a class is a contract and both sides have to fulfill their obligation.”
To break the formality above, I am close to the students and I keep in touch with some of them for years.
squadratomagico on 11 Feb 2010 at 1:30 pm #
When it rains, it pours, I guess. I’m surprised myself I’ve been posting so much of late, but I guess the slacker got under my skin enough to prompt a post, and McQueen’s death is about as unbearably sad to me as the death of a famous person I don’t actually know can be. I loved watching his career, and every time I went to London, I stopped in his store on Bond St. just to look at the amazing cnstruction.
Comrade PhysioProf on 11 Feb 2010 at 1:37 pm #
I was a lazy undisciplined shit as an undergrad and most of grad school. When I did get excited about a course, however, I poured myself into it. Maybe some of these Slacky Mc Slackersons are just more interested in some other topic than history?
squadratomagico on 11 Feb 2010 at 1:55 pm #
Comrade, it’s 100% fine by me if students do poorly in my class. I honestly don’t expect them all to love History, or my period, or my classes; indeed, I genuinely like many of my students who don’t particularly excel in my classes. It’s not about thinking that every student should be equally motivated, it’s about the entitlement of a student expecting to receive extra consideration, and good grades, when s/he is NOT motivated. and not putting forth any effort. Fine: be a lazy undisciplined shit… but then don’t act as if you deserve the same grade as someone who isn’t!
FrauTech on 11 Feb 2010 at 2:12 pm #
I’m sure any of my profs that pay attention to me assume I’m Slacky McSlackerson. It doesn’t help that every few weeks I have problems staying awake in class. Whenever I’ve managed to squeeze in a professor’s office hours I’m usually given this look of utter disgust. I hadn’t taken it personally until now; maybe they are making assumptions about me. I’m a C student and I’m okay with that. It doesn’t help that I spend another 40 hours of the week that I’m not in class in MegaCorp. I guess my business casual and the dead look in my eyes aren’t enough to clue them in. I assume none of this affects my grade. I’ve never emailed a professor begging for a better grade, only to ask what I got on the final and verify it wasn’t a mistake. And I never mention my job. But it’s still annoying people will make assumptions about you no matter what you do.
Historiann on 11 Feb 2010 at 2:49 pm #
FrauTech–you sound much more like the *other* student in Squadrato’s post, the one who’s working his butt off on a night shift job and still comes to class, every day.
Many of the “honest plodders” get mediocre or even bad grades. But, they’re honest–they’re not trying to get something for nothing. I respect that, no matter how well (or poorly) a student does in my classes. (And that’s why the Slacky McSlackersons really chap my butt. There are plodders out there plodding away honestly for their Cs and Ds, and the scammers are just scamming.)
dandelion on 11 Feb 2010 at 3:58 pm #
THose scamming slacker dudes get their mediocre grads and move right into business where they move up to the top, glad-handing and tap-dancing all the way, while behind them scurry legions of hard-working women who are told over and over that they just don’t have the “right stuff” or the “charisma” or whatever bullshit expression covers the basic fact that the powers LIKE having drinks and shooting the shit with the slacker dude and the hard working women who focus on details and get things done just bum them out (except of course for the hard working women who also are possible sex bunnies.)
I can’t count how many of those slacker dudes I’ve worked for, or trained myself so that I could then workk under them while they were paid 2-3 times what I was paid.
So no. In a lot of cases, they do get the last laugh.
LadyProf on 11 Feb 2010 at 4:19 pm #
Amen to that, dandelion. Hard-working women in corporate America are deemed boner-killers, party poopers, no fun at all, and get shoved out of the decision-making room. Meanwhile their hard-working male peers rise to power (taking a few slacker dudes along for company, see G.W. Bush’s business career in Texas) and everyone thinks that’s fine. Aren’t these fellows exactly the people that a profit-making business should reward? How could their prosperity have anything to do with sexism?
John S. on 11 Feb 2010 at 4:20 pm #
I should say that I have a decent amount of respect for the students who are shooting for a B- or B effort and give a commensurate effort–on purpose. Because of major hikes in fees over the last several years, students at my U have been taking ever increasing numbers of units each quarter. I have some students now taking 22 or 23 units! Since most of our lectures and seminars are 4 unit, that’s a bigger workload than can reasonably be done, I think, especially when someone’s working long hours at a job to pay for fees, rent, etc.
So I will often get non-history majors who are very frank with me that this class isn’t for their major, it’s to fulfill a requirement. (No one has time for electives anymore, not with the pressure to get out before another fee hike.) Thus, they just can’t afford to give an all out effort to get the A; they want to do decent, but not stellar, work and get a decent grade. I am sympathetic to their plight, since I understand that many of them might make a bigger time investment if the situation were different. And like I said, I respect them for being honest about what their priorities are in school (and life) and being able to take the grades that go along with it.
Comrade PhysioProf on 11 Feb 2010 at 7:32 pm #
Yeah, that’s a good point. When I was an undergrad, it took actual effort to be a whiny ass titty baby grade grubber. You had to find the professor and grub in person. Nowadays, the little pissants can just whine via e-mail.
Janice on 11 Feb 2010 at 8:06 pm #
A corollary: we don’t give grades for effort. (We don’t give grades at all, actually, students submit work which is evaluated for the grades.) And we certainly don’t give extra consideration for scams and bullshit sob stories (the student who tells me they were sick and could they please have an extension, but on a FB mutual friends’ status update brag about how wasted they got at a party).
In contrast, the student who’s ill or who is helping a family member who’s hospitalized, or who says “I know I messed this up, but I want to improve things, going forward. What do you recommend?” Those are the students who we’re happy to help because they aren’t trying to BS us.
Unsurprisingly, students who make the effort to attend regularly and do the assignments generally do make better grades than those who lie about their work or slack off, trying to hide their texting under the desk. I can SEE you! The students who make the effort outperform the others, not because profs “give them” good marks, but because they’re taking the steps to learn the material and techniques we’re teaching.
FrauTech, I wouldn’t worry that the profs are taking you the wrong way. More than you might think had to work our way through our degrees. Some of us did poorly at some classes, too. (Don’t ask me about my optical mineralogy and mechanical engineering courses, please? Thanks!)
Indyanna on 11 Feb 2010 at 8:22 pm #
Poorly? I flunked an invitation-only, seniors-only interdisciplinary course called “Utopias” my senior year. It was the usual “senioritis” suspects: a draft physical. a girl. some interesting botanical products that arrived in town. an unfortunate month of shockingly good weather. 4-dead-in-O-Hi-O. Almost killed my grandma, though, until they gave us all a curricular break. The only course I ever took that had anything to do with anything I ever taught, too. My students don’t believe this, so I sometimes put my transcript on the overhead. It seems to provide a weird kind of credibility, whether their results are good or bad.
koshem Bos on 11 Feb 2010 at 9:03 pm #
To the statement “I spent a lot of time on this” the standard answer, with a smile, is “time only counts in jail.”
truffula on 12 Feb 2010 at 12:38 am #
trying to hide their texting under the desk
Oh if only they tried to hide the texting! Some do but many do not. I make jokes about it and the texters are the ones who laugh. The phones are like any other addictive substance, I figure. In the end the get the grades they earn. I try to not let it get under my skin (plenty of other material for that, after all).
HistoryMaven on 12 Feb 2010 at 6:53 am #
Texting is more obvious because it requires a cellphone (usually swathed in a very loud Hello Kitty color). But it seems no different than students writing letters or laundry lists or studying for another course whilst in class–and that happens all the time with not much notice. Perhaps it’s more akin, though, to passing notes in class.
My big Shock o’ the Week is that in my current course of 10 graduate students and 5 undergraduates NO ONE had read the assignment. Big build up, new (and terrific) book in the field (one that helps to redefine the field), “We will be discussing so make sure to read” emails, an assignment very early in the semester, and the result? Shamefaced (and perhaps, therefore, earnest) students who clearly can’t bluff–poker, anyone? In a course that directly relates to their career goals?
When this happens, no one, really, can adopt the Slacker Rules of Recess (in all meanings of the word). But I really need to think about what I’ll say when one of them asks for a letter of recommendation or career advice.
perpetua on 12 Feb 2010 at 7:44 am #
I’ve probably mentioned this here below, but my first job was at a large state school where I had tons of nontraditional students. It was a very refreshing change from my private elite grad school where the entitlement and grade grubbing was almost unbearable. I had enormous respect for my non-trad students, many of whom had full time jobs, or children, or both. Some were just older folks taking a few classes. But in any event, they generally were the most respectful and hardest working. And I never take a “Hey, I wanted to work harder on this, but I just didn’t have time” personally. That’s life – life is about choices, and sometimes those choices are difficult (I can take an extra shift at work and make some extra money, which I need, or I can spend all my waking hours on this paper to get an A. I think I’ll take the C+ and the extra money). I don’t expect my students to my course before everything else in their lives – I expect them to understand & accept that sometimes not doing so will impact their grades negatively. I used to say to my classes – there are no exceptions to my grading/late policies (except for documented medical/family emergencies) but it’s not because I don’t care, it’s because everybody has a complicated life, and there still has to be one standard in order to maintain fairness in the class.
At my new job I don’t have any non-trad students. I miss them! On the other hand, I don’t get much grade grubbing, and only a few entitlement guys.
@ HistoryMaven – such situations haven’t happened to me very often, but on the rare occasion, I have to say I found dismissing the class with a calm “Well if no one’s done the work there’s no point in having class. Go home” very cathartic (for me and the class).
RKMK on 12 Feb 2010 at 8:54 am #
Unfortunately, these Slacker McSlackerson’s then go to the admin offices to bully/whine their way out of their problems, from missed exams to failed exams to missed deadlines on adding or dropping courses. And the most stubborn/entitled/belligerent of them feel perfectly at ease with escalating to the Undergrad Chair, Departmental Chair, the Registrar, the Vice-Dean…. it never ends with them.
I try to do what I can to shut it down at my level, but there have been times where that’s caused me to get a lot of abuse dumped on my head. Which I could handle if the higher-ups supported me, and stuck to their guns.
Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don’t. It’s the “don’t” times that really get to me, because they’re reinforcing the idea with these students that slacking in school is OK, and being an insolent, belligerent, borderline-abusive asshat is the real way to get by in life.
LadyProf on 12 Feb 2010 at 9:12 am #
RKMK, great to see you here–Shakesville screwed up big time, losing you!
I think we’re in a transition era. Uni’s been very pricey for at least twenty years, but academia takes a long time to adjust. We haven’t figured out how to be both an expensive consumption good and a rigorous ‘professional environment’ at the same time. Meanwhile, it would be nice of the administrators had our back, but I guess we can’t blame them for focusing on pleasing their customers.
The last bad Slacky Mac experience I had was nine years ago–law school is relatively free of it–but the memory still burns. I was summer-teaching at a private school as an adjunct. This dude’s policy was to attend as few class meetings as he could, in all of his classes. Sometimes he landed at the safe side of the line, sometimes he didn’t. I insisted he had to be kicked out of my course. It was a costly struggle to prevail. The dean of students explained that they were making money on this fellow: he would often forfeit his tuition, and never could quite graduate.
LadyProf on 12 Feb 2010 at 9:14 am #
Sorry, “nice IF the administrators….” Wishing for Preview, Historiann!
Historiann on 12 Feb 2010 at 9:17 am #
(O/t, but what happened to RKMK at Shakesville?)
LadyProf said: “We haven’t figured out how to be both an expensive consumption good and a rigorous ‘professional environment’ at the same time. Meanwhile, it would be nice of the administrators had our back, but I guess we can’t blame them for focusing on pleasing their customers.”
I think that’s exactly right. I get a lot less of that “customer service” attitude now that I teach at a big, public uni versus having taught at a couple of private, sectarian unis that were pretty good but not on the top of the heap. That is, they were very tuition dependent, and so there was more “customer service” expected by the students and their parents, and there was much more consciousness of this among the faculty, staff, and administrators too, of course. (This gets back to Perpetua’s point about the different cultures at different unis, too.)
HistoryMaven: when I was an undergraduate, I enrolled in a seminar in which few of us had done the reading. (I had, but I was a mere Sophomore and didn’t have the courage to take more of a leadership role in a room full of Juniors and Seniors). The instructor gave us a memorable shellacking, reminding us that “This is a Seminar. A SEM-I-NAR,” banging her books on the table as she pronounced each syllable. Then she dismissed us in shame. People came to class better prepared the following week, that’s for sure!
RKMK on 12 Feb 2010 at 9:51 am #
Heh, thanks, LadyProf! (Historiann – emotions got very high during the general election, and Melissa… I don’t really know how to characterize Melissa’s about-face on commenting policy, but she kind of had a meltdown, and more than a few Shakesville commenters got scapegoated as the cause of her breakdown. This is very OT, but my DISQUS comment history will help you look for yourself, should you be interested. In subsequent months, I lost all interest in commenting there when – in my opinion – the commentariat began getting guilt-tripped into giving Melissa money, even those who were living off public assistance or child support.)
LadyProf – You nailed it exactly. The escalation of tuition has resulted in creating a “customer service” orientation base for administrators instead of that of an “educational institution.” Furthermore, I work for a professional undergrad program, and the higher-ups are reluctant to refuse a student something since they pay more than, say, an Arts & Science student. (Though, I’m in Canada. Tuition is high, but not as high as in the States, and far more publicly funded. As such, I’ve been able to nip a lot of the attitude in the bud. “You pay some tuition, but taxpayers pay the bulk of your educational expense, and you’re expected to respect and appreciate your access to these educational privileges accordingly.” That usually shuts up all but the most insolent of jerkwads.)
RKMK on 12 Feb 2010 at 10:52 am #
OMG. On the continuing theme of Why It’s Good to Nip This Stuff in the Bud:
We just had a student come in to report that one of the sessional “profs” we hired this term to teach a new course has cribbed the entire thing (midterms, problem sets, everything) from an online grad course hosted by MIT.
Headthunk.
Historiann on 12 Feb 2010 at 11:19 am #
Plagiarizing an entire syllabus, plus all of the tests/problem sets? Awesome! How exactly does an instructor like that enforce rules against plagiarism and cheating by students?
Jerkwads like that give administrators and “online learning consultants” ammunition for turning us all into glorified grading monkeys who teach from common syllabi. No learning, thought, or individual creative effort required!
Ugh.
RKMK on 12 Feb 2010 at 11:33 am #
Yep. It’s the first time he’s taught, I think. He’s a consultant on the subject from the private sector that we hired on the recommendation of another sessional prof – the other sessional being the president of a provincially-recognized professional organization. (I thought he had a PhD, but he might only have a master’s, I’m not sure. I know he went to MIT, and may have actually taken this course himself.)
In any case, my Chair is going to go nuclear.
truffula on 12 Feb 2010 at 3:04 pm #
If it’s MIT OpenCourseWare then the new prof is perhaps lazy but ze’s not a plagiarist.
truffula on 12 Feb 2010 at 3:08 pm #
Unless ze didn’t correctly attribute the source, of course. But MIT spends money to put course material out there so it can be used.
Historiann on 12 Feb 2010 at 3:35 pm #
Thanks for that, truffula. But–how boring that must be, to teach someone else’s syllabus and problem sets!
(Is creativity and originality just a fetish of those of us in the humanities?)
RKMK on 12 Feb 2010 at 3:41 pm #
Thanks for the info truffula! (Though, he did try to pass it off without being sourced – the student who brought it to our attention was disgusted that he was paying so much tuition to have this man regurgigate this course without putting effort into it.)
Comrade PhysioProf on 13 Feb 2010 at 10:56 am #
NO! Using that MIT stuff for your own course is totally douchey.