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	<title>Comments on: Dear Former Students,</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: susurro</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-518680</link>
		<dc:creator>susurro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-518680</guid>
		<description>when you get these emails at my uni they tend to be the warning shot before a long protracted war involving increasingly &quot;hire ups.&quot; I once had a student fail for turning in a mid-term on a subject completely unrelated to our class and a final on a text book for one of her other classes and then write me the obligatory email. 2 yrs later, she was still going off to meetings with dean&#039;s and presidents trying to get an A+ for herself and her boyfriend, who also failed the class b/c he was too busy flirting with her to do the *in class* writing assignments. Trust me when I tell you, they were actually pretty mild compared to some (one of my colleagues even had to contend w/ a student who was contesting her grade from 3 states over from her new grad program ...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when you get these emails at my uni they tend to be the warning shot before a long protracted war involving increasingly &#8220;hire ups.&#8221; I once had a student fail for turning in a mid-term on a subject completely unrelated to our class and a final on a text book for one of her other classes and then write me the obligatory email. 2 yrs later, she was still going off to meetings with dean&#8217;s and presidents trying to get an A+ for herself and her boyfriend, who also failed the class b/c he was too busy flirting with her to do the *in class* writing assignments. Trust me when I tell you, they were actually pretty mild compared to some (one of my colleagues even had to contend w/ a student who was contesting her grade from 3 states over from her new grad program &#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: KC</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-517275</link>
		<dc:creator>KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-517275</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious as to what your students have to offer for a better grade as well. A friend of mine has a nifty ITouch that I&#039;ve been thinking I would like. Maybe try to score yourself some new gizmo in exchange for a higher grade? (I know this is unethical and so forth but it&#039;s fun to fantasize about. Decorate your house with nice gadgets and your students go home with high marks.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious as to what your students have to offer for a better grade as well. A friend of mine has a nifty ITouch that I&#8217;ve been thinking I would like. Maybe try to score yourself some new gizmo in exchange for a higher grade? (I know this is unethical and so forth but it&#8217;s fun to fantasize about. Decorate your house with nice gadgets and your students go home with high marks.)</p>
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		<title>By: Perpetua</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515964</link>
		<dc:creator>Perpetua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515964</guid>
		<description>I remember a student earlier in the semester who came to talk to me about his situation (ie he was failing because of frequent absences and failure to turn in assignments). He seemed to think that grading was a kind of arbitrary negotiation and I could magically make him pass if I wanted to. Finally, I said bluntly and not very nicely, &quot;It doesn&#039;t have anything to do with what I want or don&#039;t want.  If you don&#039;t do the assignments, you will fail.&quot;  He looked so shocked!  

I think there&#039;s a mixture of things going on here - entitlement for sure, the increase ease of secondary education (everybody comes to college thinking they&#039;re smarter than they are), grade inflation, and a complete devaluation of education in general.  They don&#039;t think of education as a process of learning to think and write critically.  They view it as an annoying hoop to jump through, a formula they have to learn, and they see it as OUR responsibility to make sure they do well (that&#039;s &quot;our job&quot; in this customer service world).  I definitely had significantly more grade complainers at my elite private u as a TA than at my large state schools where I&#039;ve taught. (Basically, I agree anecdotally with the posters who have commented that first generation students tend to be more respectful - sometimes charmingly in awe - of faculty and education generally, since it tends to be prized in their families,  not taken for granted.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember a student earlier in the semester who came to talk to me about his situation (ie he was failing because of frequent absences and failure to turn in assignments). He seemed to think that grading was a kind of arbitrary negotiation and I could magically make him pass if I wanted to. Finally, I said bluntly and not very nicely, &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with what I want or don&#8217;t want.  If you don&#8217;t do the assignments, you will fail.&#8221;  He looked so shocked!  </p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a mixture of things going on here &#8211; entitlement for sure, the increase ease of secondary education (everybody comes to college thinking they&#8217;re smarter than they are), grade inflation, and a complete devaluation of education in general.  They don&#8217;t think of education as a process of learning to think and write critically.  They view it as an annoying hoop to jump through, a formula they have to learn, and they see it as OUR responsibility to make sure they do well (that&#8217;s &#8220;our job&#8221; in this customer service world).  I definitely had significantly more grade complainers at my elite private u as a TA than at my large state schools where I&#8217;ve taught. (Basically, I agree anecdotally with the posters who have commented that first generation students tend to be more respectful &#8211; sometimes charmingly in awe &#8211; of faculty and education generally, since it tends to be prized in their families,  not taken for granted.)</p>
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		<title>By: JJO</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515963</link>
		<dc:creator>JJO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515963</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Who accredits the Vikings?&lt;/i&gt;

Favre?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Who accredits the Vikings?</i></p>
<p>Favre?</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515957</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515957</guid>
		<description>Roll it in, drag it in, push it in, just get it here... and I&#039;ll send you off the lot in a brand new super-stock Dean&#039;s List.  Nobody beats our price.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roll it in, drag it in, push it in, just get it here&#8230; and I&#8217;ll send you off the lot in a brand new super-stock Dean&#8217;s List.  Nobody beats our price.  <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: undine</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515952</link>
		<dc:creator>undine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515952</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s as much entitlement as it is a culture of haggling. Students--and everyone else, for that matter--are being taught that haggling is not only appropriate for all situations but that only chumps don&#039;t try to haggle and get a better deal. Haggling--it&#039;s not just for buying cars any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as much entitlement as it is a culture of haggling. Students&#8211;and everyone else, for that matter&#8211;are being taught that haggling is not only appropriate for all situations but that only chumps don&#8217;t try to haggle and get a better deal. Haggling&#8211;it&#8217;s not just for buying cars any more.</p>
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		<title>By: CattyinQueens</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515917</link>
		<dc:creator>CattyinQueens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515917</guid>
		<description>Ah, yes. Thank you. I just finished writing my own little rant/big sigh on a related topic.  Oh, would that one would only have to write that letter a single time...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes. Thank you. I just finished writing my own little rant/big sigh on a related topic.  Oh, would that one would only have to write that letter a single time&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515819</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515819</guid>
		<description>Heh.  At Baa Ram U., I really don&#039;t see the entitlement that Brian and History Maven write of.  (History Maven--I think I may know that student of whom you write, if as I recall you went to Ben Franklin U. too. . .)  Love Brian&#039;s story about the law student.  Some people just can&#039;t get out of their own way, can they?  The sad thing is that he was clearly rewarded by someone or some institution for his behavior along the way.

I just don&#039;t think I need to spend my break time explaining their messes to them.  I hope the torrent of e-mails slows for all of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh.  At Baa Ram U., I really don&#8217;t see the entitlement that Brian and History Maven write of.  (History Maven&#8211;I think I may know that student of whom you write, if as I recall you went to Ben Franklin U. too. . .)  Love Brian&#8217;s story about the law student.  Some people just can&#8217;t get out of their own way, can they?  The sad thing is that he was clearly rewarded by someone or some institution for his behavior along the way.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t think I need to spend my break time explaining their messes to them.  I hope the torrent of e-mails slows for all of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515744</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515744</guid>
		<description>For a number of years I taught as an adjunct Welfare and Social Policy at a couple of area law schools.  At one of the law schools the class was primarily students who were interested in the subject and it was a joy to teach there, though I finally gave it up as it was too much work on top of my full-time position.

It was only at the other school that I came across the type of entitlement you speak about.  One student who I (very generously) gave an B+ wrote to me saying that he expected an A in the course.  I assumed it was joke until he followed up by calling me at work to complain I did not respond to his request for a grade change. He said because the course was about poor people he didn&#039;t think it should be graded as hard and he took the course because he assumed he would get an A.  I told him I was not changing his grade and I assumed that was the end of that.

Several months later he wrote to me that his summer job at a large firm fell through and that he would like to work at my firm (a legal services agency)for the summer at least until &quot;something more important&quot; came through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a number of years I taught as an adjunct Welfare and Social Policy at a couple of area law schools.  At one of the law schools the class was primarily students who were interested in the subject and it was a joy to teach there, though I finally gave it up as it was too much work on top of my full-time position.</p>
<p>It was only at the other school that I came across the type of entitlement you speak about.  One student who I (very generously) gave an B+ wrote to me saying that he expected an A in the course.  I assumed it was joke until he followed up by calling me at work to complain I did not respond to his request for a grade change. He said because the course was about poor people he didn&#8217;t think it should be graded as hard and he took the course because he assumed he would get an A.  I told him I was not changing his grade and I assumed that was the end of that.</p>
<p>Several months later he wrote to me that his summer job at a large firm fell through and that he would like to work at my firm (a legal services agency)for the summer at least until &#8220;something more important&#8221; came through.</p>
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		<title>By: Digger</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/12/20/dear-former-students/comment-page-1/#comment-515700</link>
		<dc:creator>Digger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 10:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=8822#comment-515700</guid>
		<description>I give my students opportunities for extra credit (which require being present in class). If they show up, pay attention, make a few notes, think about it a bit, x 2, they can get up to another 5%. I had one student complain that was a lot of work. I told them extra credit wasn&#039;t free credit. The few that did it, didn&#039;t read the assignment. My favorite is when they ask if there is more extra credit they can do. Um, no?  One joy of D2L is that their grades are posted all semester. Final grades really shouldn&#039;t come as a shocker. I expect ~3 grade change requests this time around. I think it&#039;s a combination of laziness, entitlement, and Hail Mary. I also think we all do them a favor by modeling the consequences-actions (or lack of) relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I give my students opportunities for extra credit (which require being present in class). If they show up, pay attention, make a few notes, think about it a bit, x 2, they can get up to another 5%. I had one student complain that was a lot of work. I told them extra credit wasn&#8217;t free credit. The few that did it, didn&#8217;t read the assignment. My favorite is when they ask if there is more extra credit they can do. Um, no?  One joy of D2L is that their grades are posted all semester. Final grades really shouldn&#8217;t come as a shocker. I expect ~3 grade change requests this time around. I think it&#8217;s a combination of laziness, entitlement, and Hail Mary. I also think we all do them a favor by modeling the consequences-actions (or lack of) relationship.</p>
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