Comments on: Tenured Radical on norming, not-normals, and justice http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:26:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: las vegas dental implants specialists http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-1719972 Thu, 17 Oct 2013 23:17:00 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-1719972 certainly just like your web-site but you have to test the punctuation with a few of you. Many of them are rife by using punctuational challenges we think it is extremely problematic to tell the reality in contrast I’ll certainly keep coming back once more.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452359 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:58:01 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452359 Kathleen, I think you’re right that class envy may be part of what’s going on. I especially liked this part of your comment: “At a public uni, it’s great; you really do feel like a servant of the people. That’s a great feeling, and pretty different (I’m guessing) from feeling like a servant of the gentry.”

TR gets at this in the first post linked above, when she writes, “Furthermore, Cold War heterosexual parenting was articulated as service to the state, supported by an elaborate series of tax deductions, workplace benefits and enhanced public education designed to help (white) families become and remain middle-class. “Benefits” are part of that structure, even though we have come to think of them as something we are owed, separate from salary, because we so depend on them to remain middle class.”

Lance–I hear you. I’m at a uni at which the faculty and staff have the same (modest) benefit to bestow on (nuclear) family members. I’m not sure about domestic partners.

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By: Lance http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452277 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:11:08 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452277 I guess my point was simply that if Zenith limits such things to the children of faculty, then the institution is itself outside of normal practice, or might be. Or if faculty themselves only talk about it that way, then the same is true. Neither would be surprising, given what Zenith is. But they would be *impossible* here.

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By: Kathleen Lowrey http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452276 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:05:47 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452276 I can really understand why TR feels the way she feels, but I wonder if there isn’t some misattribution about the passionate defense by faculty parents of the tuition benefit. I kind of doubt that at a place like Zenith it is grounded in “don’t touch my hetero privilege!!!!!!”. I wonder, instead, if it is rooted in that weird and shocking moment of revelation that you don’t, exactly, belong to the social class that your students do: the moment when you realize you can’t afford to send your own kids to the kind of college your students attend. I’m not saying, oh tragedee — there are many sadder kinds of class-anguish over which we can shed our saltiest tears.

but this one specifically affects both (1) profs who are parents and (2) teaching. I teach at a public university, but I know if I taught at most private ones (other than the very cushy elites that pay profs top dollah) I would — if I had kids, which I don’t — NEVER be able to send my own kids to my own workplace on my own probable salary.

And, you know, that probably would affect how I felt about all the time I devote to students. At a public uni, it’s great; you really do feel like a servant of the people. That’s a great feeling, and pretty different (I’m guessing) from feeling like a servant of the gentry.

This class imbalance is less acutely visible to non-parents; the difference in relative privilege is not as directly comparable across a 20-something versus a 50-something lifestyle (and, obvy, everyone in this scenario enjoys tons of privilege). but comparing the options of your own 18 year old child to those of the 18 year old young people you teach and finding them wanting probably does generate some bad juju. I’m not saying a tuition benefit is the best answer to this situation, but short of ¡The Revolution! I think it might be doing some useful patchwork in terms of faculty-student relations, and this might explain some of the “you’ll pry it out of my cold dead hands” reaction TR is seeing.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452177 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:39:27 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452177 onebad, I don’t think it applies to staff, but TR would have to have the final word on that. She points out later in the comments on the first post that Zenith isn’t proposing doing away with the tuition benefit for children–it is rather just “proposing to scale back the increase temporarily.”

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By: onebadbint http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452176 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:28:38 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452176 Fair enough. I did think afterwards that I was edging too closely toward a ‘tone’ argument for my own taste.

Following on Lance’s comment re staff, is it not standard for tuition benefit to apply to them (as well as their family members) as well? It never occurred to me that it wouldn’t, and if not, that’s shockingly unfair as well.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452113 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:19:38 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452113 Lance–I don’t think TR is opposed to tuition benefits, just to the particular way that they’re distributed at Zenith, and the heteronormative terms on which they’re being defended by the “normals.” As I hoped to suggest in my post, there is more than one way to be “queer,” and Catholic religious in this country where Protestant is “normal” have always been defined as gender/sex queer (if not as sexual deviants.)

onebad: let’s not get sucked into debates over one word. We’ve had them here at this blog–”breeder” and “tool,” just to give two examples–and they’re not that interesting to me because they don’t require engagement with the larger points of an issue. It’s easy to argue about because everyone can have an opinion as to whether one word is a “bad” word or not, whether or not they’ve read the post or have given any thought at all to the larger issues at stake, so a lot of people get really invested in arguing about one word–and the larger issue gets lost.

I agree with you that TR’s use of the word “own” is provocative–but my guess is that she’s trying to make a point about the ways in which her colleagues defending the current tuition benefit imagine their relationship with their children. You’re free not to like it, of course, but I think she chose to use that word in the service of making a larger point, which is that heterosexualists who are parents frequently use their children as a pretext for making grand moral arguments that maybe aren’t all that grand or moral. (I don’t want to put words in her mouth, and I could be wrong about this, but that’s how I took it.)

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By: Jodie http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-452063 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:51:57 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-452063 Our uni offers half off 6 hours of tuition (not fees) each semester for staff and faculty only (not children or partners).

Works OK — I’d prefer it were a sliding scale (the less you make the less you pay) but at least everyone is entitled.

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By: Lance http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-451972 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 09:56:51 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-451972 I should add, before I skip out, that the benefit here in the Hoosier state is open to staff, and not just their children. And, as a minor administrator here, I’ve watched several staff members take courses in the summers and during the school year to work towards their BA.

Would I be willing to fight for this? Yes, absolutely. But do I think of it as a hetero-normative feature of the campus? Nope.

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By: onebadbint http://www.historiann.com/2009/10/03/tenured-radical-on-norming-not-normals-and-justice/comment-page-1/#comment-451968 Sun, 04 Oct 2009 09:54:31 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=7731#comment-451968 In fact the more I think about it the more it bothers me. Same objection as to “I’m not homophobic, but….” “I’m not anti-children or family, even if I use the language of slavery.”

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