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	<title>Comments on: Breast is best&#8230;for patriarchal equilibrium?</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Why I had to skip the Berks : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-836349</link>
		<dc:creator>Why I had to skip the Berks : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-836349</guid>
		<description>[...] assume I&#8217;m not a mother because I express opinions about motherhood they disagree with see here, here, and Dr. Crazy has written about this too.  Because all mothers everywhere [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] assume I&#8217;m not a mother because I express opinions about motherhood they disagree with see here, here, and Dr. Crazy has written about this too.  Because all mothers everywhere [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The man question : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-643500</link>
		<dc:creator>The man question : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-643500</guid>
		<description>[...] actually prefer daughters to sons.  ((Yawn.))  It&#8217;s too bad&#8211;I thought she had a pretty great radical feminist critique of the cult of breastfeeding last year.  I wonder what happened to the writer who was asking what had happened to all of her [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] actually prefer daughters to sons.  ((Yawn.))  It&#8217;s too bad&#8211;I thought she had a pretty great radical feminist critique of the cult of breastfeeding last year.  I wonder what happened to the writer who was asking what had happened to all of her [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Food, identity, and personal virtue : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-444156</link>
		<dc:creator>Food, identity, and personal virtue : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-444156</guid>
		<description>[...] savagery and civility, male and female, virtue and sin verguenza, outside and inside the body.  (No wonder my post on Hanna Rosin&#8217;s article on breastfeeding sparked such heated debate&#8211;the breast is perhaps ground zero of the policing and transgression of all of these things [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] savagery and civility, male and female, virtue and sin verguenza, outside and inside the body.  (No wonder my post on Hanna Rosin&#8217;s article on breastfeeding sparked such heated debate&#8211;the breast is perhaps ground zero of the policing and transgression of all of these things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Whittman</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-436614</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Whittman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-436614</guid>
		<description>The tenor of the comments, to me, seem in part to be a product of the dismissive language introduced by the Rosin article and picked up by Historiann.  Referring to people with children as &#039;breeders&#039; is only funny to people without children.  And since this discussion is about children, that sets the table for a food fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tenor of the comments, to me, seem in part to be a product of the dismissive language introduced by the Rosin article and picked up by Historiann.  Referring to people with children as &#8216;breeders&#8217; is only funny to people without children.  And since this discussion is about children, that sets the table for a food fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-436436</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-436436</guid>
		<description>I never attacked anyone.  I&#039;ll let other readers judge for themselves by reading this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never attacked anyone.  I&#8217;ll let other readers judge for themselves by reading this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: golden rulz rule &#171; Pocha</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-436115</link>
		<dc:creator>golden rulz rule &#171; Pocha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-436115</guid>
		<description>[...] 2009 September 11    by pocha   OK.  So here&#8217;s my response to the hot mess here and here.  After this, I&#8217;m shelving this one under history. &#8220;Why the defensiveness, if this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2009 September 11    by pocha   OK.  So here&#8217;s my response to the hot mess here and here.  After this, I&#8217;m shelving this one under history. &#8220;Why the defensiveness, if this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mollymiller</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-436023</link>
		<dc:creator>mollymiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 00:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-436023</guid>
		<description>Historiann,
I seriously think you&#039;ve been pretty rude to a few people here.  Just sayin.  If you&#039;re going to call someone out, then be prepared to be called out yourself.  Listen to your readers -- don&#039;t attack them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann,<br />
I seriously think you&#8217;ve been pretty rude to a few people here.  Just sayin.  If you&#8217;re going to call someone out, then be prepared to be called out yourself.  Listen to your readers &#8212; don&#8217;t attack them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-435879</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-435879</guid>
		<description>I have questions about Rosin&#039;s article, and I have questions about the correlation between the ideology and frequency of breastfeeding and the strength of the women&#039;s movement across time.  (Perhaps its the status of women that I mean when I write &quot;women&#039;s movement&quot;, instead.)

My two questions regarding Rosin&#039;s article are: is she correct about the science; and is she correct about the role of breastfeeding in enforcing a certain standard of womanhood for a certain group of women?  Based on a quick-and-dirty reading of her citations and the major ones she left out, I conclude that Rosin is wrong about the science.  There is a small but persistent set of scientific benefits to breastfeeding.  I suspect, however, that Rosin is correct about the role of breastfeeding -- especially when I consider the B.I. as part of an entire set of parenting values proposed by and pushed on some groups of U.S. women in the past 20 years.

I am still considerably irritated by Rosin&#039;s rhetorical need not only to make her point about the costs of breastfeeding paid in women&#039;s time and in the reinforcement of anti-feminist family patterns, but also to fudge the science.  Feminists who believe that the BI (if not breastfeedomg itself) hurts women should be able to say, &quot;yes, there are medical and psychological benefits to breastfeeding, but they are small, and they are not enough.&quot;

My responses to Rosin then raise a secondary set of questions: is it still possible to understand the decision to breastfeed as counter-patriarchal, given the pervasiveness of the BI imperative for some groups of women?  How do feminists weight mother&#039;s and scholar&#039;s [sometimes competing] analyses of &quot;why women breastfeed in different cultures/communities&quot;?  How do feminist couples who want to BF on the basis of the science, not to mention their personal preferences, understand their actions in the context of the wider patriarchal environment?  Are lesbian couples more or less privileged within some feminist communities when one partner chooses a &quot;traditional/patriarchal&quot; role within the family, which may include extended BFing, organic food, cloth diapers, and the lifestyle espoused generally by &quot;Mothering&quot; magazine?

In my immediate community, the most &quot;granola&quot; parents are often those who describe themselves most vehemently as anti-patriarchal.  These are often people who focus on patriarchy&#039;s interconnection with capitalism, and who propose that their family decisions are specifically anti-capitalist.  In that sense, and in these communities, the BI is part of a larger conversation about how best to change society, and can be analyzed as part of the debate over time about what it would mean to overhaul social systems.

And this brings me to my last set of questions, which is: what is the correlation between greater rates of breastfeeding or a greater emphasis on breastfeeding, and women&#039;s status over time?  If women&#039;s status doesn&#039;t appear to correlate with their breastfeeding choices, do we nevertheless see a rise in debates over infant/toddler feeding at moments when women appeared to be gaining political, economic, or social power?  There&#039;s clear evidence in the 20th century that women are encouraged (by &quot;experts&quot; and by each other) to &quot;think of the children&quot; at key moments when the women&#039;s movement has gained ground.  Can we link the BI, or the &quot;granola&quot; parenthood movement generally, to a backlash against women or against feminism in the nineties and noughts?  What do we make of the fact that anecdotally, at least, the &quot;breastfeeding zealots&quot; are more likely to be college-educated, self-identify as liberal in their politics, and be of higher socioeconomic status?  [Breastfeeding rates among self-defined conservative women are often not as high as those among self-defined liberals, and the playground evangelists for breastfeeding are not typically the Michelle Duggar moms.]

I have lots of questions, but few answers.  I think the questions are worthwhile, and that people can answer them whether they&#039;ve parented or breastfed or not.

Two last points: Rosin was still breastfeeding her third child while she was promoting her Atlantic Monthly article; when asked why, she said &quot;because I like it, and that should be enough.&quot;

And while I understood your use of &quot;breeder&quot; to be a bit of light-hearted fun, I think it&#039;s reasonable to consider the context in which terms are usually used.  &quot;Breeder&quot; is almost always used critically, albeit with wit and humor in some venues.  &quot;Breeder&quot; can even carry with it an aura of denigration, depending on how you feel about rhetorically connecting women to their status as animals.  I wouldn&#039;t have used the term in this post, given its wider usage and the likelihood that it might hinder frank discussion.  But given Dr. Crazy&#039;s linked post, and her fury at censorship, I want to be very clear that I see a difference between critiquing the effect of a person&#039;s word choices and an attempt to stop people from using certain words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have questions about Rosin&#8217;s article, and I have questions about the correlation between the ideology and frequency of breastfeeding and the strength of the women&#8217;s movement across time.  (Perhaps its the status of women that I mean when I write &#8220;women&#8217;s movement&#8221;, instead.)</p>
<p>My two questions regarding Rosin&#8217;s article are: is she correct about the science; and is she correct about the role of breastfeeding in enforcing a certain standard of womanhood for a certain group of women?  Based on a quick-and-dirty reading of her citations and the major ones she left out, I conclude that Rosin is wrong about the science.  There is a small but persistent set of scientific benefits to breastfeeding.  I suspect, however, that Rosin is correct about the role of breastfeeding &#8212; especially when I consider the B.I. as part of an entire set of parenting values proposed by and pushed on some groups of U.S. women in the past 20 years.</p>
<p>I am still considerably irritated by Rosin&#8217;s rhetorical need not only to make her point about the costs of breastfeeding paid in women&#8217;s time and in the reinforcement of anti-feminist family patterns, but also to fudge the science.  Feminists who believe that the BI (if not breastfeedomg itself) hurts women should be able to say, &#8220;yes, there are medical and psychological benefits to breastfeeding, but they are small, and they are not enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>My responses to Rosin then raise a secondary set of questions: is it still possible to understand the decision to breastfeed as counter-patriarchal, given the pervasiveness of the BI imperative for some groups of women?  How do feminists weight mother&#8217;s and scholar&#8217;s [sometimes competing] analyses of &#8220;why women breastfeed in different cultures/communities&#8221;?  How do feminist couples who want to BF on the basis of the science, not to mention their personal preferences, understand their actions in the context of the wider patriarchal environment?  Are lesbian couples more or less privileged within some feminist communities when one partner chooses a &#8220;traditional/patriarchal&#8221; role within the family, which may include extended BFing, organic food, cloth diapers, and the lifestyle espoused generally by &#8220;Mothering&#8221; magazine?</p>
<p>In my immediate community, the most &#8220;granola&#8221; parents are often those who describe themselves most vehemently as anti-patriarchal.  These are often people who focus on patriarchy&#8217;s interconnection with capitalism, and who propose that their family decisions are specifically anti-capitalist.  In that sense, and in these communities, the BI is part of a larger conversation about how best to change society, and can be analyzed as part of the debate over time about what it would mean to overhaul social systems.</p>
<p>And this brings me to my last set of questions, which is: what is the correlation between greater rates of breastfeeding or a greater emphasis on breastfeeding, and women&#8217;s status over time?  If women&#8217;s status doesn&#8217;t appear to correlate with their breastfeeding choices, do we nevertheless see a rise in debates over infant/toddler feeding at moments when women appeared to be gaining political, economic, or social power?  There&#8217;s clear evidence in the 20th century that women are encouraged (by &#8220;experts&#8221; and by each other) to &#8220;think of the children&#8221; at key moments when the women&#8217;s movement has gained ground.  Can we link the BI, or the &#8220;granola&#8221; parenthood movement generally, to a backlash against women or against feminism in the nineties and noughts?  What do we make of the fact that anecdotally, at least, the &#8220;breastfeeding zealots&#8221; are more likely to be college-educated, self-identify as liberal in their politics, and be of higher socioeconomic status?  [Breastfeeding rates among self-defined conservative women are often not as high as those among self-defined liberals, and the playground evangelists for breastfeeding are not typically the Michelle Duggar moms.]</p>
<p>I have lots of questions, but few answers.  I think the questions are worthwhile, and that people can answer them whether they&#8217;ve parented or breastfed or not.</p>
<p>Two last points: Rosin was still breastfeeding her third child while she was promoting her Atlantic Monthly article; when asked why, she said &#8220;because I like it, and that should be enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>And while I understood your use of &#8220;breeder&#8221; to be a bit of light-hearted fun, I think it&#8217;s reasonable to consider the context in which terms are usually used.  &#8220;Breeder&#8221; is almost always used critically, albeit with wit and humor in some venues.  &#8220;Breeder&#8221; can even carry with it an aura of denigration, depending on how you feel about rhetorically connecting women to their status as animals.  I wouldn&#8217;t have used the term in this post, given its wider usage and the likelihood that it might hinder frank discussion.  But given Dr. Crazy&#8217;s linked post, and her fury at censorship, I want to be very clear that I see a difference between critiquing the effect of a person&#8217;s word choices and an attempt to stop people from using certain words.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-434712</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-434712</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Lets’focus on providng support to women to decide for themselves properly.&lt;/i&gt;

Agreed.  Let&#039;s also leave them alone once they&#039;ve made their decision.  It seems to me that few babies are fed solely by one method or the other--of the people who attempt to nurse, they also incorporate formula into their child&#039;s diet at some point.  

This post really is more about the historical moment that has led us to the Breastfeeding Imperative in some circles, and why women are usually the enforcers of the B.I.  Sadly, I don&#039;t think that U.S. society is going to &quot;give the space, time, and support for women to really give it a good go.&quot;  That would cost time and money beyond just individual women&#039;s time and money, which are undervalued in any case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Lets’focus on providng support to women to decide for themselves properly.</i></p>
<p>Agreed.  Let&#8217;s also leave them alone once they&#8217;ve made their decision.  It seems to me that few babies are fed solely by one method or the other&#8211;of the people who attempt to nurse, they also incorporate formula into their child&#8217;s diet at some point.  </p>
<p>This post really is more about the historical moment that has led us to the Breastfeeding Imperative in some circles, and why women are usually the enforcers of the B.I.  Sadly, I don&#8217;t think that U.S. society is going to &#8220;give the space, time, and support for women to really give it a good go.&#8221;  That would cost time and money beyond just individual women&#8217;s time and money, which are undervalued in any case.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/09/05/breast-is-bestfor-patriarchal-equilibrium/comment-page-2/#comment-434663</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=7224#comment-434663</guid>
		<description>What a false argument! Here in Sydney Australia, although our once fine public health system is a crisis, women are just not getting the supprt to breastfeed. I struggled terribly with  breastfeeding my first nealy 30 years ago and was able to get intensive support including a week at a mothercraft home. When I worked  with disadvantaged women having babies some 15 years later support was diminishing. Now, women leave hospital sometimes the next day - their milk hasn&#039;t come in and they go home to all the stresses and strains of life.
I beleive women need a considerable amount of time to adjust to a new baby with signifcant daily support. Breatfeeding often takes time and patience to establish. Very few women are physically incapable,but I can&#039;t help thinking that, societally, we do not give the space, time and support for women to really give it a good go.
Braet v bottle is afallacious argument, designed to divide women. Lets&#039;focus on providng support to women to decide for themselves properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a false argument! Here in Sydney Australia, although our once fine public health system is a crisis, women are just not getting the supprt to breastfeed. I struggled terribly with  breastfeeding my first nealy 30 years ago and was able to get intensive support including a week at a mothercraft home. When I worked  with disadvantaged women having babies some 15 years later support was diminishing. Now, women leave hospital sometimes the next day &#8211; their milk hasn&#8217;t come in and they go home to all the stresses and strains of life.<br />
I beleive women need a considerable amount of time to adjust to a new baby with signifcant daily support. Breatfeeding often takes time and patience to establish. Very few women are physically incapable,but I can&#8217;t help thinking that, societally, we do not give the space, time and support for women to really give it a good go.<br />
Braet v bottle is afallacious argument, designed to divide women. Lets&#8217;focus on providng support to women to decide for themselves properly.</p>
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