Comments on: We can haz pony now? http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:48:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: heatwaveincali http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-421803 Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:33:48 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-421803 Yes, I too wish Obama had more experience under his belt, though, as I thin about it, a lot of recent presidents are not the seasoned legislator/statesman types — witness the late Teddy Kennedy’s loss to a little-known peanut farmer. I have no theory as to why this is, just mulling…

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-413722 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:20:49 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-413722 Laydeegirl–I take a great deal of pleasure in being right, although I take less pleasure in being right about Obama. I’m a Democrat, and the Dem party’s fortunes will rise or fall with Obama’s. So, I’m rooting for him to pull his horse out of the mire and get ‘er ready to ride again. I hope he can show the same capacity for learning and mid-course correction that Clinton has.

But, this was the risk that the party took in nominating the least experienced candidate, one who had a thin record as a legislator, no record in any administrative position, no record of taking tough positions anywhere, and no experience in any tough fights. He’s turned out to be exactly what I predicted last spring and summer–unfortunately for him, and for the rest of us.

I’m not arguing that Clinton would have done better. I’m arguing that Obama had better DO better, because he’s all we’ve got.

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By: laydeegirl http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-413580 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:09:45 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-413580 A few additional thoughts on health care…since I like the sound of my own voice (obviously interest has waned, alas!)

On the “folly” of Obama reaching out to Republicans and conservative Dems:

– One of the lessons Hillary Clinton said she learned from her poor performance in health care reform (in which she failed to gain support of key Democratic senators) was to be more bipartisan. Similarly, her health care reform efforts are largely credited for helping to usher in one of the most pernicious congresses in history.

– If H-ann is implying that Hillary Clinton is more of a ‘real’ force for old-time Democrats and progressivism, let’s remember Clinton’s comments during the election about “vaporizing” Iran and of course her failure to contest the war on Iraq, which resulted in a million deaths, and something that some of us will never overlook. It was SO much more damnable than co-ops!

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By: laydeegirl http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-412323 Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:01:09 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-412323 I could be wrong but I really sense that, H-ann, you and some others on the left take some pleasure in the prospect of Obama failing, which is a shame. As for co-ops, there are some communities where not-for-profit coops are producing great results at lowered costs. So as much as I like Krugman, I don’t let him dictate my thinking. Glad that Obama doens’t either.

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By: Digger http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-411269 Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:15:13 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-411269 People need to always be aware that private insurance companies are not in the business of providing health care. They are in the business of making whackloads of money. And they will spend whackloads of money and make stuff up and monger fear (whatever it takes!) to protect their interests to continue to do so.

I agree, Obama seems to be out of his league here. And, he’s letting the other guys frame the argument. Always a bad move (it happened over gay rights also, where it became a fight about “family values”). Don’t rise to the red herrings, and sure as heck don’t do it politely. They are out for blood and a sense of unity. Call bullsh!t and pull out your own damn sledgehammer. WTF do you have Rahm and Joe around for? Send ‘em out swinging!

At the risk of sounding all conspiracy-theorist, I have had similar thoughts as Emily… was this all on purpose? So when the wheels fall off, he can point at the other guys and say, “-I- tried, they stopped me!!!111″ … or is this even just wishful thinking — that at least there *is* some sort of plan beyond flailing?

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By: Emma http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-410827 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:33:28 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-410827 I for one will be psyched whether it’s government or co-op…,

Good luck with that. Don’t trust me? Talk to the Krugman:

“And let’s be clear: the supposed alternative, nonprofit co-ops, is a sham. That’s not just my opinion; it’s what the market says: stocks of health insurance companies soared on news that the Gang of Six senators trying to negotiate a bipartisan approach to health reform were dropping the public plan. Clearly, investors believe that co-ops would offer little real competition to private insurers.”

So, like Historiann, I’ll leave you pick up the beer bottles and sweep up the glass.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-410658 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:02:30 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-410658 Exactly, Indyanna. Everyone thought it was so awesome and cool that Obama was firing up young people, independents, and even some Republicans. Expanding the base is great, but all along, I kept thinking: so what’s going to happen when this guy inevitably disappoints some of these people, whose support for the Dem party might be a mile wide this year but it actually about 1 mircon deep? It’s going to be us old-time Dems who are going to have to clean up this mess.

Awesome!

Thanks kids, but I’m not picking up the smashed beer bottles and sweeping up the glass this time. I “hope” you like the “change!”

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By: Indyanna http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-410650 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:57:10 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-410650 There was an instructive piece earlier this week (?) in the NY Times about activism-fatigue among various cells of the Obama movement in Iowa over this issue. Some rallies or networking events were scheduled by them and very conspicuously underattended. Followup press interviews indeed suggested that a lot of people had left it all on the playing field last year and just couldn’t summon that addrenalin again. Not admirable, but I guess not surprising in the human scheme of things. This episode also suggests how the seam between the Obama and Hillary Clinton wings did not really seal that much between the election and now. Because who among the latter (and I was one of them) can resist saying I thought they had the plan to get this thing done? It’s the unions, mainly, that rallied on the ground to counter the wild talkers at the town meetings, and that just to some extent reinforced the right wing message that it’s a special interest thing.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-410630 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:49:01 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-410630 On Obama’s strategic blunders and the disaffection of his base, see today’s column by Paul Krugman, “Obama’s Trust Problem,” via an excellent commentary by Melissa at Shakeseville, “Trust Me.”

You have to admire George W. Bush: he always took care of his base, and said hang everyone else. Now we have Dem president who is closer to catering to Bush’s base than he is to his own, and he’s “shocked and surprised.” Call the Whaaaaaaambulance!

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/20/we-can-haz-pony-now/comment-page-1/#comment-410537 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 12:57:06 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=6936#comment-410537 Sorry, laydeegirl–this is about Obama really believing his own rhetoric and press that he was a “uniter, not a divider,” and not having a clear plan of action. He thought somehow that he wouldn’t be targeted with b.s. and lies like every other Dem president. (Remember the crazzy from 1993-94 about how Bill Clinton was running drugs out of the Little Rock airport, and all of the Vince Foster speculations? The “birther” lies and the militia movements ginning up and the “Obama death panels” are all of the same stripe.) Expecting that Republicans would play fair was a fatal (and totally avoidable) error, and continuing to flatter and negotiate with old liars like Chuck Grassley is just nuts.

I sure hope Obama can turn it around, but he looks weak. That he can’t manage to rally more of his supporters at this point (maybe because he doesn’t have a plan?) makes his “brilliant social networking campaign” look like more of a gimmick than a governing strategy.

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