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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Back-to-Girl School time, kids!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Kathleen Lowrey</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-409221</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen Lowrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-409221</guid>
		<description>Digger -- okay, this is one of the times I regret using my real name on the interwebs *but* there are actually instructional videos on YouTube.  They aren&#039;t magic, though -- I watched one on how to apply fake eyelashes, failed miserably anyway, then had my husband watch it (he has better hand-eye coordination than I do) and voilá!  He did it for me, perfectly.  Not that anybody here doesn&#039;t already know this, but so many supposedly girl/boy skills come down to un-gendered aptitudes.  The idea that throwing a baseball is antithetical to making your hair look pretty... in fact, they both require mental control over one&#039;s appendages that I just don&#039;t have, I flail equally at both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digger &#8212; okay, this is one of the times I regret using my real name on the interwebs *but* there are actually instructional videos on YouTube.  They aren&#8217;t magic, though &#8212; I watched one on how to apply fake eyelashes, failed miserably anyway, then had my husband watch it (he has better hand-eye coordination than I do) and voilá!  He did it for me, perfectly.  Not that anybody here doesn&#8217;t already know this, but so many supposedly girl/boy skills come down to un-gendered aptitudes.  The idea that throwing a baseball is antithetical to making your hair look pretty&#8230; in fact, they both require mental control over one&#8217;s appendages that I just don&#8217;t have, I flail equally at both.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408658</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408658</guid>
		<description>Try &quot;What Not to Wear,&quot; with Clinton (or Clayton?) and Stacey (sp?) on some cable channel I don&#039;t get.  (TLC?)  They work with people as they find them, rather than trying to change their bodies as well as their wardrobes, although they get a new hairstyle and some makeup tips at the end of the show.  They have good ideas about how to find clothes that look good and fit properly, and which highlight your good features.

One of the things I like about the show is that they always find a good feature on everyone, no matter how non-modelesque the participants.  They teach people how to work with what they&#039;ve got, rather than screaming at people that they need to lose 100 pounds before they&#039;ll even try to work with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try &#8220;What Not to Wear,&#8221; with Clinton (or Clayton?) and Stacey (sp?) on some cable channel I don&#8217;t get.  (TLC?)  They work with people as they find them, rather than trying to change their bodies as well as their wardrobes, although they get a new hairstyle and some makeup tips at the end of the show.  They have good ideas about how to find clothes that look good and fit properly, and which highlight your good features.</p>
<p>One of the things I like about the show is that they always find a good feature on everyone, no matter how non-modelesque the participants.  They teach people how to work with what they&#8217;ve got, rather than screaming at people that they need to lose 100 pounds before they&#8217;ll even try to work with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Digger</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408627</link>
		<dc:creator>Digger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408627</guid>
		<description>Historiann - Heh, me either!  Flavia - thanks for the tips. The thought of looking up makeup tips squicks me no end. I&#039;ll cope and take a peek, but reserve the right to run screaming ;)  Wardrobe tips, though... those I can use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann &#8211; Heh, me either!  Flavia &#8211; thanks for the tips. The thought of looking up makeup tips squicks me no end. I&#8217;ll cope and take a peek, but reserve the right to run screaming <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />   Wardrobe tips, though&#8230; those I can use.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408462</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408462</guid>
		<description>Wow--I can&#039;t believe this is turning into a genuine &quot;girl school&quot; lesson for girls!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8211;I can&#8217;t believe this is turning into a genuine &#8220;girl school&#8221; lesson for girls!</p>
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		<title>By: Flavia</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408300</link>
		<dc:creator>Flavia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408300</guid>
		<description>Historiann: ah, if only! But it&#039;s true that I often regard my relatively femme-y exterior as an elaborate joke that not many people are actually in on.

Digger: that&#039;s tough. I spent a long time just experimenting, and figuring things out by trial and error (it took me a remarkably long while to discover that I have a good figure, because I kept buying the kinds of clothes that looked good on my friends but weren&#039;t remotely flattering to ME).

I&#039;d say not to tackle it all at once, but focus on one or two things at a time, and don&#039;t be shy about asking specific questions of people whose style you admire. For makeup and grooming, I recommend Paula Begoun&#039;s books and website--go to the &quot;learn&quot; section. (She does sell her own line of products, but I&#039;ve found her to be a trustworthy, no-nonsense explainer of skincare and makeup basics, who will tell you which routines and products are hooey.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann: ah, if only! But it&#8217;s true that I often regard my relatively femme-y exterior as an elaborate joke that not many people are actually in on.</p>
<p>Digger: that&#8217;s tough. I spent a long time just experimenting, and figuring things out by trial and error (it took me a remarkably long while to discover that I have a good figure, because I kept buying the kinds of clothes that looked good on my friends but weren&#8217;t remotely flattering to ME).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say not to tackle it all at once, but focus on one or two things at a time, and don&#8217;t be shy about asking specific questions of people whose style you admire. For makeup and grooming, I recommend Paula Begoun&#8217;s books and website&#8211;go to the &#8220;learn&#8221; section. (She does sell her own line of products, but I&#8217;ve found her to be a trustworthy, no-nonsense explainer of skincare and makeup basics, who will tell you which routines and products are hooey.)</p>
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		<title>By: Digger</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408133</link>
		<dc:creator>Digger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408133</guid>
		<description>Flavia, I&#039;d love to reinvent myself a little bit, in the mold of those characters and other, RL folks whose style I admire. I just, honestly, haven&#039;t a clue where to start. Anyone have any Remedial Texts around?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flavia, I&#8217;d love to reinvent myself a little bit, in the mold of those characters and other, RL folks whose style I admire. I just, honestly, haven&#8217;t a clue where to start. Anyone have any Remedial Texts around?</p>
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		<title>By: The Bittersweet Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-408126</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bittersweet Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-408126</guid>
		<description>Thanks for showcasing my post! 

I think you are right -- if we define &quot;girlhood&quot; as &quot;unrelenting insecurity that one has failed to meet the standard precepts of femininity&quot; than I am an award-winning girl. The spirit behind the post was that, as much as I don&#039;t think many of these social niceties -- and the gendered stereotypes that they rest upon and reinforce -- are valuable, I nevertheless beat myself up about failing to satisfy them. I&#039;m very interested to see that so many of your readers seem to have similar experiences -- and particularly to see what your male readers have to say about the lessons learned or not learned at &quot;boy school&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for showcasing my post! </p>
<p>I think you are right &#8212; if we define &#8220;girlhood&#8221; as &#8220;unrelenting insecurity that one has failed to meet the standard precepts of femininity&#8221; than I am an award-winning girl. The spirit behind the post was that, as much as I don&#8217;t think many of these social niceties &#8212; and the gendered stereotypes that they rest upon and reinforce &#8212; are valuable, I nevertheless beat myself up about failing to satisfy them. I&#8217;m very interested to see that so many of your readers seem to have similar experiences &#8212; and particularly to see what your male readers have to say about the lessons learned or not learned at &#8220;boy school&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-407965</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-407965</guid>
		<description>Flavia, maybe you should think of yourself as an undercover secret agent for radical feminism?  That&#039;s how I think of myself, although I am pretty conformist and pretty femmy now in the way I dress.  And, I&#039;m very flirtatious (or so I&#039;m told), so mark me down as an honors graduate of &quot;Girl School.&quot;

The only takeaway from &quot;Girl School&quot; I still feel the need to actively rebel against is when I am unnecessarily focused on being &quot;nice.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flavia, maybe you should think of yourself as an undercover secret agent for radical feminism?  That&#8217;s how I think of myself, although I am pretty conformist and pretty femmy now in the way I dress.  And, I&#8217;m very flirtatious (or so I&#8217;m told), so mark me down as an honors graduate of &#8220;Girl School.&#8221;</p>
<p>The only takeaway from &#8220;Girl School&#8221; I still feel the need to actively rebel against is when I am unnecessarily focused on being &#8220;nice.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Flavia</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-407886</link>
		<dc:creator>Flavia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-407886</guid>
		<description>I went to Girl School late -- the end of college and after -- when I decided that I did, in fact, want to &quot;pass&quot; as female in certain external ways.

This includes hair/makeup/clothes/grooming stuff, but not the behaviors that I and a lot of the other posters here identify as feminine in a negative way (being deferrential, giggly, backstabby, etc.).

I&#039;m sure some of this was for mating-related reasons, but I saw it at the time as self-creation -- as becoming a certain kind of adult, urban woman, based on the smart, confident, fast-talking characters I admired in books and old movies. I was tired of being shy and awkward and feeling that I didn&#039;t come across as the person I thought I was.

My Girl School Extension classes were successful, insofar as I did become the person I wished to be. But I&#039;m still ambivalent about the ways that my &quot;success&quot; seems complicit with heterosexual norms of female attractiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to Girl School late &#8212; the end of college and after &#8212; when I decided that I did, in fact, want to &#8220;pass&#8221; as female in certain external ways.</p>
<p>This includes hair/makeup/clothes/grooming stuff, but not the behaviors that I and a lot of the other posters here identify as feminine in a negative way (being deferrential, giggly, backstabby, etc.).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure some of this was for mating-related reasons, but I saw it at the time as self-creation &#8212; as becoming a certain kind of adult, urban woman, based on the smart, confident, fast-talking characters I admired in books and old movies. I was tired of being shy and awkward and feeling that I didn&#8217;t come across as the person I thought I was.</p>
<p>My Girl School Extension classes were successful, insofar as I did become the person I wished to be. But I&#8217;m still ambivalent about the ways that my &#8220;success&#8221; seems complicit with heterosexual norms of female attractiveness.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/18/its-back-to-girl-school-time-kids/comment-page-1/#comment-407286</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6852#comment-407286</guid>
		<description>Wow--can I say, after &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/wcw-red-wheel.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;William Carlos Williams&lt;/a&gt;:

so much depends
upon

big breast
implants

gazed on with 
envy

by all the other 
chicks

Sad.  But, my guess is she&#039;s young, so maybe she&#039;ll figure out by age 40 that tempus fugit and even her fake ones will head south of the border...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8211;can I say, after <a href="http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88v/wcw-red-wheel.html" rel="nofollow">William Carlos Williams</a>:</p>
<p>so much depends<br />
upon</p>
<p>big breast<br />
implants</p>
<p>gazed on with<br />
envy</p>
<p>by all the other<br />
chicks</p>
<p>Sad.  But, my guess is she&#8217;s young, so maybe she&#8217;ll figure out by age 40 that tempus fugit and even her fake ones will head south of the border&#8230;</p>
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