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	<title>Comments on: Why not start at the top?</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: susurro</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-407303</link>
		<dc:creator>susurro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-407303</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m coming in late to this conversation and pessimistically, which I suppose is worse. I&#039;ve always respected the strategy in TX (forget which campus) that decided to hire more fac of color, including woc, by doing a cluster hire or equal parts juniors and seniors. I&#039;ve brought this plan up in discussions of diversity recruitment I have done for colleges with &quot;diversity issues&quot; and in my own program. My biggest concern w/the model here is that while it attempts to address the discrimination in the evaluation process of tenure it does so by bypassing it all together (ie the structural problems go unchallenged). Also by seeking out senior lines over junior lines, it rewards people who already have jobs in a dwindling market, when the vast majority of ppl currently getting their degrees are women and people of color. So that it runs the risk of both shutting out new blood, for lack of a better phrase, and ultimately creating a similar shrinking of available options for women and poc faculty by simply circulating the same already tenured ppl in the system.

Our national mentor program has seen a huge increase in the number of students who have lost jobs to seniors (for advertised junior positions) or who have been unable to find work in their subfield b/c the majority of positions open were for Seniors. Many of our most gifted students are actively looking outside of academe after being shut out of the market in this way . . .

So while we applaud the push to get women, and others, into higher positions in hire ed, I think we really have to ask how these efforts are actually benefiting a goal of diversifying the ranks in both the short and long term? whether systemic change is actually going on? and what do any policies, this one or the one I championed, mean at the weakest links in the process?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m coming in late to this conversation and pessimistically, which I suppose is worse. I&#8217;ve always respected the strategy in TX (forget which campus) that decided to hire more fac of color, including woc, by doing a cluster hire or equal parts juniors and seniors. I&#8217;ve brought this plan up in discussions of diversity recruitment I have done for colleges with &#8220;diversity issues&#8221; and in my own program. My biggest concern w/the model here is that while it attempts to address the discrimination in the evaluation process of tenure it does so by bypassing it all together (ie the structural problems go unchallenged). Also by seeking out senior lines over junior lines, it rewards people who already have jobs in a dwindling market, when the vast majority of ppl currently getting their degrees are women and people of color. So that it runs the risk of both shutting out new blood, for lack of a better phrase, and ultimately creating a similar shrinking of available options for women and poc faculty by simply circulating the same already tenured ppl in the system.</p>
<p>Our national mentor program has seen a huge increase in the number of students who have lost jobs to seniors (for advertised junior positions) or who have been unable to find work in their subfield b/c the majority of positions open were for Seniors. Many of our most gifted students are actively looking outside of academe after being shut out of the market in this way . . .</p>
<p>So while we applaud the push to get women, and others, into higher positions in hire ed, I think we really have to ask how these efforts are actually benefiting a goal of diversifying the ranks in both the short and long term? whether systemic change is actually going on? and what do any policies, this one or the one I championed, mean at the weakest links in the process?</p>
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		<title>By: Moria</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-405074</link>
		<dc:creator>Moria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-405074</guid>
		<description>Wow. I usually don&#039;t do this - makes me more grumpy than it&#039;s worth - but I just read through the comments on IHE. 

Wow. Really dismal. And just as dismal as the sexism is the clear evidence that people with (presumably) terminal degrees lack any critical reasoning skills whatsoever. Forget sensitivity training: a &lt;i&gt;cultural studies class&lt;/i&gt; should be required by HR at every university. I mean, really: wow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I usually don&#8217;t do this &#8211; makes me more grumpy than it&#8217;s worth &#8211; but I just read through the comments on IHE. </p>
<p>Wow. Really dismal. And just as dismal as the sexism is the clear evidence that people with (presumably) terminal degrees lack any critical reasoning skills whatsoever. Forget sensitivity training: a <i>cultural studies class</i> should be required by HR at every university. I mean, really: wow.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz2</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-404551</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-404551</guid>
		<description>Can I just say how thrilled I am that UT-Austin felt a senior woman in African studies was a valuable hire!  African studies so often gets shunted aside, although UT-Austin has been making a greater move into that area of late.  Congrats to UT on getting Johnson-Hanks, her work is terrific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I just say how thrilled I am that UT-Austin felt a senior woman in African studies was a valuable hire!  African studies so often gets shunted aside, although UT-Austin has been making a greater move into that area of late.  Congrats to UT on getting Johnson-Hanks, her work is terrific.</p>
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		<title>By: Dani</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-404141</link>
		<dc:creator>Dani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-404141</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t mean Texas is a bad town like some people commented above ..Its a nice city to be in ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t mean Texas is a bad town like some people commented above ..Its a nice city to be in ..</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403558</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403558</guid>
		<description>I know, H-ann.  I know.  

These problems get exponentially worse, of course, when you try to hire a senior woman of color.  

For the old guard (old in the head and the heart), the intertwined expectations are always that (a) all candidates should have the networking, publishing profile, and research trajectory of establishment norms, (b) service (such as mentoring, community work, or campus work with student organizations, all of which is absolutely priceless) is a waste of time and looks &quot;weird&quot; on the record, and (c) any reference to race, gender or sexuality in research cheapens the already cheapened candidate, perhaps in part because it raises the prospect of closer scrutiny to departmental gender politics.  The old guard lives in fear of the last.

But, of course, when you are transforming a departmental/unit culture, you desperately want to find people who can do a, b, and c in some kind of balance.  They can do what Tanya wants.  They can cement change.  

It is a veritable Kobayashi Maru scenario.

Now I need the bourbon....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, H-ann.  I know.  </p>
<p>These problems get exponentially worse, of course, when you try to hire a senior woman of color.  </p>
<p>For the old guard (old in the head and the heart), the intertwined expectations are always that (a) all candidates should have the networking, publishing profile, and research trajectory of establishment norms, (b) service (such as mentoring, community work, or campus work with student organizations, all of which is absolutely priceless) is a waste of time and looks &#8220;weird&#8221; on the record, and (c) any reference to race, gender or sexuality in research cheapens the already cheapened candidate, perhaps in part because it raises the prospect of closer scrutiny to departmental gender politics.  The old guard lives in fear of the last.</p>
<p>But, of course, when you are transforming a departmental/unit culture, you desperately want to find people who can do a, b, and c in some kind of balance.  They can do what Tanya wants.  They can cement change.  </p>
<p>It is a veritable Kobayashi Maru scenario.</p>
<p>Now I need the bourbon&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanya</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403419</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403419</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a great idea. One glitch, however, that comes to mind is that just hiring accomplished senior women faculty and promising female junior faculty does not necessarily lead to greater retention of the junior women. This is primarily because not everyone, no matter how well-published, is a good mentor. I think that mentoring is a skill some people develop that can, at times, be quite apart from the ability to be a prolific scholar. In that vein, I hope UT is simultaneously implementing other strategies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a great idea. One glitch, however, that comes to mind is that just hiring accomplished senior women faculty and promising female junior faculty does not necessarily lead to greater retention of the junior women. This is primarily because not everyone, no matter how well-published, is a good mentor. I think that mentoring is a skill some people develop that can, at times, be quite apart from the ability to be a prolific scholar. In that vein, I hope UT is simultaneously implementing other strategies.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403295</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403295</guid>
		<description>Lance--I meant to say earlier that I think you&#039;re right on to say &quot;To really make this work, and in such a short timeframe, you need something clicking at every level - departments to pull alone and pull together, Deans and Provosts to commit extra funds for spousal appointments.&quot;

Yes, everything has to fire on all cylinders.  It sure did for so many generations of entitled white men, when thumbs were put on the scale for them through the exclusion of most other races and sexes of people from grad school and discriminatory practices in hiring, as Janice suggests.  AS IF UT-Austin wouldn&#039;t have made sure that they were hiring superstars!  Those first comments over at IHE remind me of my little brother when I played board games with him:  when I started winning, he&#039;d take the board and flip all of the pieces and cards and dice in the air so that the game was over.

Fortunately, some sensible people appear later in the comment thread.  I especially appreciate the comments from &quot;Madge the Academic Manicurist,&quot; and from &quot;Lance,&quot; who I assume is our Lance here.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/14/texas#Comments&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Check them both out&lt;/a&gt;--scroll all the way down--but I&#039;ll copy some of Lance&#039;s comment here:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Since gains like this can be ephemeral, let us hope the administration and faculty maintain a commitment to a diverse faculty. The free and fair exchange of new and old ideas is a critical element of knowledge production, but it is hard to create the circumstances for it in a world with only one set of experiences represented.

As for the boys club here, go watch District 9, grab a bourbon, read some Coetzee, and think about the changing world around you. You - we - have all the advantages, and everything to lose. But these things (better and more plentiful job opportunities, higher wages, a system of social benefits impossible to measure) weren&#039;t ever really ours. And we look mean when we cling to them. Do you want all the jobs? All of them? Forever? Really? How pathetic. &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;


But but but Lance:  they DO want all of the jobs forever, because no one else is truly qualified!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance&#8211;I meant to say earlier that I think you&#8217;re right on to say &#8220;To really make this work, and in such a short timeframe, you need something clicking at every level &#8211; departments to pull alone and pull together, Deans and Provosts to commit extra funds for spousal appointments.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, everything has to fire on all cylinders.  It sure did for so many generations of entitled white men, when thumbs were put on the scale for them through the exclusion of most other races and sexes of people from grad school and discriminatory practices in hiring, as Janice suggests.  AS IF UT-Austin wouldn&#8217;t have made sure that they were hiring superstars!  Those first comments over at IHE remind me of my little brother when I played board games with him:  when I started winning, he&#8217;d take the board and flip all of the pieces and cards and dice in the air so that the game was over.</p>
<p>Fortunately, some sensible people appear later in the comment thread.  I especially appreciate the comments from &#8220;Madge the Academic Manicurist,&#8221; and from &#8220;Lance,&#8221; who I assume is our Lance here.  <a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/14/texas#Comments" rel="nofollow">Check them both out</a>&#8211;scroll all the way down&#8211;but I&#8217;ll copy some of Lance&#8217;s comment here:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Since gains like this can be ephemeral, let us hope the administration and faculty maintain a commitment to a diverse faculty. The free and fair exchange of new and old ideas is a critical element of knowledge production, but it is hard to create the circumstances for it in a world with only one set of experiences represented.</p>
<p>As for the boys club here, go watch District 9, grab a bourbon, read some Coetzee, and think about the changing world around you. You &#8211; we &#8211; have all the advantages, and everything to lose. But these things (better and more plentiful job opportunities, higher wages, a system of social benefits impossible to measure) weren&#8217;t ever really ours. And we look mean when we cling to them. Do you want all the jobs? All of them? Forever? Really? How pathetic. </em></p></blockquote>
<p>But but but Lance:  they DO want all of the jobs forever, because no one else is truly qualified!</p>
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		<title>By: Lance</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403246</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403246</guid>
		<description>Cool.  I will remain attentive.

And as for Austin&#039;s charms: people I know love the town.  I think maybe it wears better on people who like the alt-rock, alt-country, indie film scene.  And, of course, you have to like the heat.  

They sure do have some good people there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.  I will remain attentive.</p>
<p>And as for Austin&#8217;s charms: people I know love the town.  I think maybe it wears better on people who like the alt-rock, alt-country, indie film scene.  And, of course, you have to like the heat.  </p>
<p>They sure do have some good people there.</p>
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		<title>By: Janice</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403237</link>
		<dc:creator>Janice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403237</guid>
		<description>Wow! Philippa Levine? They&#039;re getting some really amazing scholars with this recruitment. Way to go, UT-Austin!

I am amused at the comments over at IHE. Being a faculty brat, I grew up watching high-flying engineering profs being recruited to my dad&#039;s faculty. Everyone was thrilled when this or that noteworthy scholar was recruited. That&#039;s the way the game is played in the big leagues (and that&#039;s why we&#039;re all told to publish and network so that we can take advantage of these opportunities should they come our way). However, when it comes to the IHE commenters, when women are recruited, even high-profile women such as those mentioned in the article, it&#039;s all about discrimination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Philippa Levine? They&#8217;re getting some really amazing scholars with this recruitment. Way to go, UT-Austin!</p>
<p>I am amused at the comments over at IHE. Being a faculty brat, I grew up watching high-flying engineering profs being recruited to my dad&#8217;s faculty. Everyone was thrilled when this or that noteworthy scholar was recruited. That&#8217;s the way the game is played in the big leagues (and that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re all told to publish and network so that we can take advantage of these opportunities should they come our way). However, when it comes to the IHE commenters, when women are recruited, even high-profile women such as those mentioned in the article, it&#8217;s all about discrimination.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/14/why-not-start-at-the-top/comment-page-1/#comment-403222</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6854#comment-403222</guid>
		<description>Lance, that&#039;s a good idea.  Towards the end of next month, when people are busy applying for jobs (if there are any jobs to apply to), I&#039;ll post a compilation of links about job searches and advice for both candidates and interviewing departments.

GayProf at Center of Gravitas had a couple of great posts on just those last two topics in the past year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lance, that&#8217;s a good idea.  Towards the end of next month, when people are busy applying for jobs (if there are any jobs to apply to), I&#8217;ll post a compilation of links about job searches and advice for both candidates and interviewing departments.</p>
<p>GayProf at Center of Gravitas had a couple of great posts on just those last two topics in the past year.</p>
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