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	<title>Comments on: Man shoots women:  just another &#8220;dog-bites-man&#8221; story!</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Jesse C. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-399127</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse C. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-399127</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know what was wrong with this person, but most people&#039;s that was young and learning about love do have sex two to seven time a day believe me I have been there, but what he did not get was that when we grow old thing&#039;s change, he just didn&#039;t have good insight about life! My heart is hurting for the women that were kill by the mad man, make the Lord bless them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know what was wrong with this person, but most people&#8217;s that was young and learning about love do have sex two to seven time a day believe me I have been there, but what he did not get was that when we grow old thing&#8217;s change, he just didn&#8217;t have good insight about life! My heart is hurting for the women that were kill by the mad man, make the Lord bless them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen Lowrey</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397537</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen Lowrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 00:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397537</guid>
		<description>I totally, totally agree with the misogyny analysis and the racist analysis, I want to say that up front.  But I think the &quot;oh he was distressed by his lack of a girlfriend&quot; thing is a real red herring.  I&#039;d really be glad to see some kind of psychoanalytic account of the intense pleasures of rage.  Rage can be a delicious, seductive feeling -- it can reflect back a powerful and righteous version of ourselves -- it thrives and grows on being nurtured and attended to -- it can be an all-absorbing partner.

I don&#039;t believe this guy had any real interest in a girlfriend; I think he had a very very deep relationship with his own rage.  I do think a substantial portion of popular culture works to cross the wires of the pleasures of sex with the pleasures of rage (vide:  mean, hateful porn) (vide: the pick-up artist/ &quot;game&quot; subculture) (vide: the weird saturation of all mainstream detective shows with sexeee mutilated female corpses).

And, obviously, sexual paranoia about race employs the same triggers: naughty sexy negroes!  so horneeee!  so angreeee!  

Like, all that &quot;date younger women&quot; literature he was into isn&#039;t really &quot;find a girl&quot; lit; it&#039;s &quot;feed your loathing&quot; / &quot;here&#039;s a poke in the eye to all women!&quot; lit:  the men who buy it now full well it will creep out under-30s and hurt the feelings of over-30s.  That&#039;s the point, full stop.

Anyway, I would like to see an analysis that recognizes he wasn&#039;t a man without a relationship:  he had one really, really, really consuming partner.  

That doesn&#039;t mean I want the conversation to follow the pattern, &quot;oh, let&#039;s not talk about sex or race!  Let&#039;s talk about this one person&#039;s personal hang-ups&quot;.  I more mean, let&#039;s talk about the fact that sexism and racism trigger rage, and rage can feel *awesome*, and people are really reluctant to give up their sources of pleasure.  I think one thing that gets in the way is the idea is &quot;oh, but sexism and racism are negative.  No one really wants negative energy in their lives, therefore no-one is really deep down sexist or racist&quot;.

That&#039;s wrong; it&#039;s worth exploring what people get out of sexism and racism when it&#039;s obviously not social power (if America were less sexist and racist, imagine the social safety net we&#039;d all enjoy!).  It&#039;s toe-curling jollies, that&#039;s the scary truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally, totally agree with the misogyny analysis and the racist analysis, I want to say that up front.  But I think the &#8220;oh he was distressed by his lack of a girlfriend&#8221; thing is a real red herring.  I&#8217;d really be glad to see some kind of psychoanalytic account of the intense pleasures of rage.  Rage can be a delicious, seductive feeling &#8212; it can reflect back a powerful and righteous version of ourselves &#8212; it thrives and grows on being nurtured and attended to &#8212; it can be an all-absorbing partner.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe this guy had any real interest in a girlfriend; I think he had a very very deep relationship with his own rage.  I do think a substantial portion of popular culture works to cross the wires of the pleasures of sex with the pleasures of rage (vide:  mean, hateful porn) (vide: the pick-up artist/ &#8220;game&#8221; subculture) (vide: the weird saturation of all mainstream detective shows with sexeee mutilated female corpses).</p>
<p>And, obviously, sexual paranoia about race employs the same triggers: naughty sexy negroes!  so horneeee!  so angreeee!  </p>
<p>Like, all that &#8220;date younger women&#8221; literature he was into isn&#8217;t really &#8220;find a girl&#8221; lit; it&#8217;s &#8220;feed your loathing&#8221; / &#8220;here&#8217;s a poke in the eye to all women!&#8221; lit:  the men who buy it now full well it will creep out under-30s and hurt the feelings of over-30s.  That&#8217;s the point, full stop.</p>
<p>Anyway, I would like to see an analysis that recognizes he wasn&#8217;t a man without a relationship:  he had one really, really, really consuming partner.  </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean I want the conversation to follow the pattern, &#8220;oh, let&#8217;s not talk about sex or race!  Let&#8217;s talk about this one person&#8217;s personal hang-ups&#8221;.  I more mean, let&#8217;s talk about the fact that sexism and racism trigger rage, and rage can feel *awesome*, and people are really reluctant to give up their sources of pleasure.  I think one thing that gets in the way is the idea is &#8220;oh, but sexism and racism are negative.  No one really wants negative energy in their lives, therefore no-one is really deep down sexist or racist&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s wrong; it&#8217;s worth exploring what people get out of sexism and racism when it&#8217;s obviously not social power (if America were less sexist and racist, imagine the social safety net we&#8217;d all enjoy!).  It&#8217;s toe-curling jollies, that&#8217;s the scary truth.</p>
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		<title>By: John S.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397515</link>
		<dc:creator>John S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397515</guid>
		<description>Another issue that Herbert doesn&#039;t discuss (and that so much other coverage has ignored) is the question of race. In one section of Sodini&#039;s diaries that the NYT and other outlets haven&#039;t quoted, Sodini wrote in November about his despair at Obama&#039;s election. Specifically, he believed that Obama would ensure that every black man would get a young white &quot;hoe&quot; for his own use. (I hope that language doesn&#039;t sound too exploitative--it really is the sanitized version of what Sodini wrote.)

Sodini&#039;s fears of a powerful black man zeroed right in on this question of black man-white woman sexual liaisons. Maybe the only thing worse to Sodini than his inability to control white women was the fact that black men can (or will) be able to control them? (That&#039;s my pop psychologizing.) I&#039;m not suggesting this as a &quot;race trumps gender&quot; kind of thing, but it is interesting to me that Sodini&#039;s sexualized gynocide was pretty specifically racialized as well. So not only has the media ignored some of the points you raise, Historiann, but also the fact that sex and violence go hand in hand with race in American culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another issue that Herbert doesn&#8217;t discuss (and that so much other coverage has ignored) is the question of race. In one section of Sodini&#8217;s diaries that the NYT and other outlets haven&#8217;t quoted, Sodini wrote in November about his despair at Obama&#8217;s election. Specifically, he believed that Obama would ensure that every black man would get a young white &#8220;hoe&#8221; for his own use. (I hope that language doesn&#8217;t sound too exploitative&#8211;it really is the sanitized version of what Sodini wrote.)</p>
<p>Sodini&#8217;s fears of a powerful black man zeroed right in on this question of black man-white woman sexual liaisons. Maybe the only thing worse to Sodini than his inability to control white women was the fact that black men can (or will) be able to control them? (That&#8217;s my pop psychologizing.) I&#8217;m not suggesting this as a &#8220;race trumps gender&#8221; kind of thing, but it is interesting to me that Sodini&#8217;s sexualized gynocide was pretty specifically racialized as well. So not only has the media ignored some of the points you raise, Historiann, but also the fact that sex and violence go hand in hand with race in American culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397509</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397509</guid>
		<description>IOW, to clarify:  did Johanna Justin-Jinich do anything to deserve her death more than the women murdered last week in that health club in PA?  Did those women and children murdered last spring by their husbands &amp; fathers do anything more to deserve their fates than the victims of Cho?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IOW, to clarify:  did Johanna Justin-Jinich do anything to deserve her death more than the women murdered last week in that health club in PA?  Did those women and children murdered last spring by their husbands &#038; fathers do anything more to deserve their fates than the victims of Cho?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397495</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397495</guid>
		<description>Susan, doesn&#039;t separating the selected victims from the random victims perpetuate the notion that killers who kill their wives/girlfriends/daughters/other women are engaging in &quot;domestic&quot; violence?  My concern is that interpersonal violence like that gets normalized, and it&#039;s only random mass shootings that are considered disturbing or aberrant.

Just as feminists have strived not to separate &quot;date rape&quot; from &quot;real&quot; (stranger) rape, so I think we need to see all violence against women as one end of the spectrum of men&#039;s sense of entitlement to women&#039;s bodies, attention, and time, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan, doesn&#8217;t separating the selected victims from the random victims perpetuate the notion that killers who kill their wives/girlfriends/daughters/other women are engaging in &#8220;domestic&#8221; violence?  My concern is that interpersonal violence like that gets normalized, and it&#8217;s only random mass shootings that are considered disturbing or aberrant.</p>
<p>Just as feminists have strived not to separate &#8220;date rape&#8221; from &#8220;real&#8221; (stranger) rape, so I think we need to see all violence against women as one end of the spectrum of men&#8217;s sense of entitlement to women&#8217;s bodies, attention, and time, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Notorious Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397431</link>
		<dc:creator>Notorious Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397431</guid>
		<description>The comments are interesting, too.  I only got to page 4 of 13, but they appear to be mostly supportive.  But there&#039;s the inevitable &quot;Dear God, what about all the men who are victims of violence?&quot; and &quot;Women in the U.S. have it much better than in places like Pakistan.&quot;  As if that made it okay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments are interesting, too.  I only got to page 4 of 13, but they appear to be mostly supportive.  But there&#8217;s the inevitable &#8220;Dear God, what about all the men who are victims of violence?&#8221; and &#8220;Women in the U.S. have it much better than in places like Pakistan.&#8221;  As if that made it okay.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/08/08/man-shoots-women-just-another-dog-bites-man-story/comment-page-1/#comment-397378</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=6772#comment-397378</guid>
		<description>I doubt even having a man write about it in the NYT will make a difference.  But it&#039;s good to see it there.  And while women like Johanna Justin-Jinich are part of the story, I think there is a difference when women are targeted anonymously: she was targeted because of her killer knew her, while those in Pennsylvania were just, well, women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt even having a man write about it in the NYT will make a difference.  But it&#8217;s good to see it there.  And while women like Johanna Justin-Jinich are part of the story, I think there is a difference when women are targeted anonymously: she was targeted because of her killer knew her, while those in Pennsylvania were just, well, women.</p>
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