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	<title>Comments on: Caroline Knapp on professor-student relationships</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: On prohibiting faculty-student sexual relationships : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-366131</link>
		<dc:creator>On prohibiting faculty-student sexual relationships : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-366131</guid>
		<description>[...] of you confessed to having relationships with professors when you were students, and then in a follow-up post we talked about the role that drinking may play in these relationships.  Why don&#8217;t we have a code like that of other professionals which acknowledges the power we [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of you confessed to having relationships with professors when you were students, and then in a follow-up post we talked about the role that drinking may play in these relationships.  Why don&#8217;t we have a code like that of other professionals which acknowledges the power we [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-330474</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-330474</guid>
		<description>Sisyphus -- yes, in this area too and also among people much older, it is assumed you have to get drunk in order to have sex, and it is considered normal to pass out, not remember, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sisyphus &#8212; yes, in this area too and also among people much older, it is assumed you have to get drunk in order to have sex, and it is considered normal to pass out, not remember, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: life_of_a_fool</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-330435</link>
		<dc:creator>life_of_a_fool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-330435</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure this changes anything, but in the examples I can think of, the men were the heavy drinkers.  The women that I know the most about were not.  (I would argue that this reflects two things:  very blurry boundaries that the professor (doesn&#039;t) draw between himself and students, and a possible desire by the young women to &quot;save&quot; the brilliant, troubled men).

I also read, and liked, Smashed.  It is a young person&#039;s perspective, and at times this is annoying, but is also it&#039;s strength (if that&#039;s what you&#039;re looking for. . .)

As to Rad Readr&#039;s comment about &quot;alcoholic effects&quot; -- I get the point, and these books may or may not be useful to the general public or others with a history of addiction.  But, for the writer, this type of memoir is a pretty common redemption narrative/strategy as well -- the idea of making sense of your negative past and using it a positive way, in order to try to help others.  And, if that works for them, then good for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure this changes anything, but in the examples I can think of, the men were the heavy drinkers.  The women that I know the most about were not.  (I would argue that this reflects two things:  very blurry boundaries that the professor (doesn&#8217;t) draw between himself and students, and a possible desire by the young women to &#8220;save&#8221; the brilliant, troubled men).</p>
<p>I also read, and liked, Smashed.  It is a young person&#8217;s perspective, and at times this is annoying, but is also it&#8217;s strength (if that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re looking for. . .)</p>
<p>As to Rad Readr&#8217;s comment about &#8220;alcoholic effects&#8221; &#8212; I get the point, and these books may or may not be useful to the general public or others with a history of addiction.  But, for the writer, this type of memoir is a pretty common redemption narrative/strategy as well &#8212; the idea of making sense of your negative past and using it a positive way, in order to try to help others.  And, if that works for them, then good for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Sisyphus</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-330017</link>
		<dc:creator>Sisyphus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-330017</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read _Smashed_ but know some people who teach it here. 

The students at this place are the champions of divulging all sorts of TMI in public and not thinking anything of it. So, in one women&#039;s studies class I was TAing we got on the subject of alcohol and date rape and from there a bunch of my students flat-out said they had never had sex when they were sober before --- that they always drink to the point of passing out soon after (or during) the sex.  :-(  What really blew my mind were the numbers of them who were in relationships, not just picking up random dudes at a bar every night, which is disturbing enough. And none of them --- well, not until I had pushed them on the issue quite a bit --- could figure out why that might be so upsetting. I guess it&#039;s partly having a real strong party/frat culture here, but it also seemed to be saying something important about having to drug yourself until you could participate in today&#039;s highly sexualized culture. That and if you don&#039;t actively work to learn how to do all these &quot;adult&quot;-type things like sex and flirting and relationships sober, you&#039;ll be forced to use alcohol as a crutch to get you through them for a long, long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read _Smashed_ but know some people who teach it here. </p>
<p>The students at this place are the champions of divulging all sorts of TMI in public and not thinking anything of it. So, in one women&#8217;s studies class I was TAing we got on the subject of alcohol and date rape and from there a bunch of my students flat-out said they had never had sex when they were sober before &#8212; that they always drink to the point of passing out soon after (or during) the sex.  <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />   What really blew my mind were the numbers of them who were in relationships, not just picking up random dudes at a bar every night, which is disturbing enough. And none of them &#8212; well, not until I had pushed them on the issue quite a bit &#8212; could figure out why that might be so upsetting. I guess it&#8217;s partly having a real strong party/frat culture here, but it also seemed to be saying something important about having to drug yourself until you could participate in today&#8217;s highly sexualized culture. That and if you don&#8217;t actively work to learn how to do all these &#8220;adult&#8221;-type things like sex and flirting and relationships sober, you&#8217;ll be forced to use alcohol as a crutch to get you through them for a long, long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann Bartow</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329957</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Bartow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329957</guid>
		<description>If you liked Knapp&#039;s book, you should definitely check out &lt;i&gt;Smashed&lt;/i&gt;, which I blogged about here: http://feministlawprofessors.com/?p=92

I had some pretty intense crushes on a couple of my professors in both college and law school, but I dealt with them by avoiding the dudes outside the classroom as completely as possible, so that they would never guess. To this day I can&#039;t explain why, but I&#039;m very glad all the same!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you liked Knapp&#8217;s book, you should definitely check out <i>Smashed</i>, which I blogged about here: <a href="http://feministlawprofessors.com/?p=92" rel="nofollow">http://feministlawprofessors.com/?p=92</a></p>
<p>I had some pretty intense crushes on a couple of my professors in both college and law school, but I dealt with them by avoiding the dudes outside the classroom as completely as possible, so that they would never guess. To this day I can&#8217;t explain why, but I&#8217;m very glad all the same!</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329794</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329794</guid>
		<description>Fascinating -- grudge f--k. Now I can go back and figure out the meaning of grudge PhD and so on. New Kid, you&#039;re right about the SLACS: drugs, alcohol, and incestuous sex, it is amazing. It is *much* safer to go to a more impersonal school and I have direct experience of all types of school.

It is weird but very many of my friends are former undergraduate students. It goes like this: I meet someone I vaguely recognize, but who knows me. Where do I know you from? Oh yeah, that class a few years ago...what are you doing now? Oh that is interesting. We hit it off and become friends. This has been happening since I was a T.A. I keep getting more and more friends of this description and now many of them are friends among themselves.

I am not sure whether it is unhealthy or not but these people are often more interesting than my colleagues because they are now doing something completely different, or than graduate students, because they&#039;re not in the department any more (and in many cases never were, just took a class).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating &#8212; grudge f&#8211;k. Now I can go back and figure out the meaning of grudge PhD and so on. New Kid, you&#8217;re right about the SLACS: drugs, alcohol, and incestuous sex, it is amazing. It is *much* safer to go to a more impersonal school and I have direct experience of all types of school.</p>
<p>It is weird but very many of my friends are former undergraduate students. It goes like this: I meet someone I vaguely recognize, but who knows me. Where do I know you from? Oh yeah, that class a few years ago&#8230;what are you doing now? Oh that is interesting. We hit it off and become friends. This has been happening since I was a T.A. I keep getting more and more friends of this description and now many of them are friends among themselves.</p>
<p>I am not sure whether it is unhealthy or not but these people are often more interesting than my colleagues because they are now doing something completely different, or than graduate students, because they&#8217;re not in the department any more (and in many cases never were, just took a class).</p>
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		<title>By: The Rebel Lettriste</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329702</link>
		<dc:creator>The Rebel Lettriste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329702</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t get a grudge PhD as much as end up with a PhD that still mystifies me.  As in, &quot;how the hell did I end up HERE?&quot;  Especially because I didn&#039;t seem to follow the requisite rules.

And Iowa + a$$hats + Facebook = all kinds of mess.  Ain&#039;t much to do in the hawkeye state but screw around...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t get a grudge PhD as much as end up with a PhD that still mystifies me.  As in, &#8220;how the hell did I end up HERE?&#8221;  Especially because I didn&#8217;t seem to follow the requisite rules.</p>
<p>And Iowa + a$$hats + Facebook = all kinds of mess.  Ain&#8217;t much to do in the hawkeye state but screw around&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: undine</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329398</link>
		<dc:creator>undine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329398</guid>
		<description>All these stories and the ones on the other thread--wow.  I mean, I&#039;ve heard of the &quot;ditch the wife who supported you and take up with a graduate student&quot; scenario as well as the others mentioned (marrying your undergraduate student), but I thought those things only happened a long, long time ago before all the rules about such things got implemented.  Thanks for pointing out that it is still such a problem today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these stories and the ones on the other thread&#8211;wow.  I mean, I&#8217;ve heard of the &#8220;ditch the wife who supported you and take up with a graduate student&#8221; scenario as well as the others mentioned (marrying your undergraduate student), but I thought those things only happened a long, long time ago before all the rules about such things got implemented.  Thanks for pointing out that it is still such a problem today.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329362</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329362</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s where one goes out and has sex with someone else after a breakup just to prove ze can, preferably with a friend or acquaintance of hir ex.  Connotes anger, bitterness, and revenge rather than true desire or respect for the new bedmate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s where one goes out and has sex with someone else after a breakup just to prove ze can, preferably with a friend or acquaintance of hir ex.  Connotes anger, bitterness, and revenge rather than true desire or respect for the new bedmate.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/06/06/caroline-knapp-on-professor-student-relationships/comment-page-1/#comment-329354</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5632#comment-329354</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure I&#039;d like the book. Meanwhile I am trying to figure out what a &quot;grudge f--k&quot; is. ? Is it explained in this thread ... I am not seeing it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d like the book. Meanwhile I am trying to figure out what a &#8220;grudge f&#8211;k&#8221; is. ? Is it explained in this thread &#8230; I am not seeing it?</p>
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