<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Boldly going forward, &#8217;cause we can&#8217;t find reverse?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:11:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316082</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 19:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316082</guid>
		<description>Erica &amp; all--I&#039;m just so pleased that you, John S., Susurro and others have found each other!  Since I&#039;m not really a Star Trekkie, I can&#039;t participate, but it&#039;s interesting to read all of your musings.

Enjoy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erica &#038; all&#8211;I&#8217;m just so pleased that you, John S., Susurro and others have found each other!  Since I&#8217;m not really a Star Trekkie, I can&#8217;t participate, but it&#8217;s interesting to read all of your musings.</p>
<p>Enjoy!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316080</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 19:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316080</guid>
		<description>[Historiann -- if you post about Star Trek, I will apparently hang around your comment thread &lt;em&gt;all day long&lt;/em&gt;.]

It&#039;s true, Uhura was, and likely still will be, the glorified telephone operator; a refreshing new look would be having a &lt;em&gt;guy&lt;/em&gt; do that job. (Worf did, but he also was chief security officer, fired phasers, and did Klingon stuff.)

I still prefer both Uhura and Hoshi to Deanna Troi, though, who was kinda the same character except she picked up on thoughts and feelings instead of actual communications. (Very &quot;feminine&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Historiann -- if you post about Star Trek, I will apparently hang around your comment thread <em>all day long</em>.]</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true, Uhura was, and likely still will be, the glorified telephone operator; a refreshing new look would be having a <em>guy</em> do that job. (Worf did, but he also was chief security officer, fired phasers, and did Klingon stuff.)</p>
<p>I still prefer both Uhura and Hoshi to Deanna Troi, though, who was kinda the same character except she picked up on thoughts and feelings instead of actual communications. (Very &#8220;feminine&#8221;.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John S.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316067</link>
		<dc:creator>John S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 18:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316067</guid>
		<description>The show &quot;Enterprise&quot; took a similar tack as the movie, putting the expert linguist Hoshi Sato on the bridge instead of a TOS-style Uhura. They ended up falling back into the same patterns, however. She was one of two women featured regularly in the cast, along with T&#039;Pol. Instead of hailing vessels or picking up distress signals (as 60s Uhura did), Hoshi hailed vessels and picked up distress signals *in alien foreign languages*.

The practice became such a cliche that the very snarky online reviewers at Television Without Pity turned &quot;Hoshi&quot; into a a verb. (As in, the communications officer on the show _Battlestar Galactica_ &quot;Hoshis&quot; the other ships in the fleet to give them coordinates when they are getting ready to make a light-speed jump.) In response, the producers at _BSG_ introduced a new communications officer on the bridge of the Galactica and named him Hoshi.

I guess the point of this pedantic, geeky post is that I feel like I&#039;ve seen people try to do what J.J. Abrahms did for Uhura before, and it ended up seeming so similar to the original iteration. Maybe it&#039;s more noticeable over the course of a series than a two-hour movie, I don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The show &#8220;Enterprise&#8221; took a similar tack as the movie, putting the expert linguist Hoshi Sato on the bridge instead of a TOS-style Uhura. They ended up falling back into the same patterns, however. She was one of two women featured regularly in the cast, along with T&#8217;Pol. Instead of hailing vessels or picking up distress signals (as 60s Uhura did), Hoshi hailed vessels and picked up distress signals *in alien foreign languages*.</p>
<p>The practice became such a cliche that the very snarky online reviewers at Television Without Pity turned &#8220;Hoshi&#8221; into a a verb. (As in, the communications officer on the show _Battlestar Galactica_ &#8220;Hoshis&#8221; the other ships in the fleet to give them coordinates when they are getting ready to make a light-speed jump.) In response, the producers at _BSG_ introduced a new communications officer on the bridge of the Galactica and named him Hoshi.</p>
<p>I guess the point of this pedantic, geeky post is that I feel like I&#8217;ve seen people try to do what J.J. Abrahms did for Uhura before, and it ended up seeming so similar to the original iteration. Maybe it&#8217;s more noticeable over the course of a series than a two-hour movie, I don&#8217;t know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316032</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 17:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316032</guid>
		<description>Thought of another mildly relevant example -- there&#039;s a scene with Chekov running down from the bridge, &quot;I can do that I can do that I can do that!&quot; and he takes over transporter control from an unnamed female crew member to rescue Kirk and Sulu in the nick of time. (Personally, I always felt it was pitifully bad design to create a piece of technology that can only be adequately operated by some sort of mega-genius and/or luck.) Looking for female characters on the ship in addition to Uhura is, sadly, a pretty disappointing search.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought of another mildly relevant example &#8212; there&#8217;s a scene with Chekov running down from the bridge, &#8220;I can do that I can do that I can do that!&#8221; and he takes over transporter control from an unnamed female crew member to rescue Kirk and Sulu in the nick of time. (Personally, I always felt it was pitifully bad design to create a piece of technology that can only be adequately operated by some sort of mega-genius and/or luck.) Looking for female characters on the ship in addition to Uhura is, sadly, a pretty disappointing search.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316021</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 16:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316021</guid>
		<description>I agree, the movie takes a conservative turn. Another conservative turn is the way in which the movie breaks down the mythological bromance between Kirk and Spock by hitching Spock to Uhura. A Star Trek Universe in which Spock&#039;s soulmate is not Kirk? Blasphemy. Around the web people are talking about bromance between Kirk and Spock in the new movie, but I guess they never saw the first Star Trek movie (hand holding scene) or Star Trek II, with that death scene and memorial scene, which are like the ultimate male weepies!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, the movie takes a conservative turn. Another conservative turn is the way in which the movie breaks down the mythological bromance between Kirk and Spock by hitching Spock to Uhura. A Star Trek Universe in which Spock&#8217;s soulmate is not Kirk? Blasphemy. Around the web people are talking about bromance between Kirk and Spock in the new movie, but I guess they never saw the first Star Trek movie (hand holding scene) or Star Trek II, with that death scene and memorial scene, which are like the ultimate male weepies!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: susurro</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316018</link>
		<dc:creator>susurro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 16:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316018</guid>
		<description>oops - Uhura and Sulu are on the Bridge, so that should read that you cannot have more than one woc @ a time.

Also, while the film encourages us to overlook Uhura&#039;s special skills, let&#039;s not forget that she is the one who actually saves the day. Remember, she finds and translates the message that alerts Kirk to the Romulan plot &amp; it is her word, not Kirk&#039;s, that gets both Pike and Spock to believe him.

(now I&#039;ll shut up b/c my comment is longer than the post ... sorry!!!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops &#8211; Uhura and Sulu are on the Bridge, so that should read that you cannot have more than one woc @ a time.</p>
<p>Also, while the film encourages us to overlook Uhura&#8217;s special skills, let&#8217;s not forget that she is the one who actually saves the day. Remember, she finds and translates the message that alerts Kirk to the Romulan plot &amp; it is her word, not Kirk&#8217;s, that gets both Pike and Spock to believe him.</p>
<p>(now I&#8217;ll shut up b/c my comment is longer than the post &#8230; sorry!!!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: susurro</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-316016</link>
		<dc:creator>susurro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 16:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-316016</guid>
		<description>@Erica - I too forgot the pants, that is how insignificant those moments were. And I swear in the scene that pic is from she is in a skirt, but I could be mistaken.

Also, I think people are forgetting that the only scene in which new-Uhura&#039;s linguistic talents are taken seriously, she replaces an incompetent Latino Communications Director who outranks her. He is the only Latino on the bridge and the only Latino not in a crowd shot in the Federation. Thus Uhura is the ultimate stand-in for race and gender b/c apparently you can have as many ethnic and alien bodies in one place at one time in Star Fleet but not more than one poc at a time.


@ Lance - actually the last few years of transformers, when they returned to their home planet, featured women transformers (most of whom were pink and extremely slender). I think there was some hope that they could do a spin off telling what the women had been up to b/c they were introduced at a time when shows like JEM and even Strawberry Shortcake were taking over the market. The Director of the first live action installment got massively criticized for failing to include the female transformers and his response was &quot;I just couldn&#039;t imagine how to fit them in.&quot; (He actually said something very similar to this, tho I can&#039;t say the quote is exact.) 

@Jeremy Young - The reduction of Uhura to plot device is one of my major complaints as well. And as I note in my review, I think it is not only to highlight the conflict between Kirk and Spock (ie women as property) but also to support an underlining thesis about heroism as hyper-masculinity and heterosexuality. It is the same tactic they took in the alternate universe on the original series where Spock was Captain but also evil.

***

While we are talking &quot;uniforms,&quot; I do think it is important to note that many updated movies have actually made the women&#039;s outfits worse, neither reflecting the fashion of the time nor the original. Watchmen for instance actually shrunk and tightened the outfits on the women while bulking up the outfits on the men. (The exception was Dr. Manhattan and his periodic full frontal.) And while there are some men who are scantily clad, there are also men in full coverage - some to the point that only their chin is uncovered - and the full coverage/enhanced muscle suits are becoming standard in film adaptations. So it isn&#039;t that we cannot find men in far less clothing but the fact that we have to struggle to find women with any clothes at all.  The exception - X-Men, they have standardized uniform and w/the exception of Storm (who is also clothed head to toe) they mostly all wear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Erica &#8211; I too forgot the pants, that is how insignificant those moments were. And I swear in the scene that pic is from she is in a skirt, but I could be mistaken.</p>
<p>Also, I think people are forgetting that the only scene in which new-Uhura&#8217;s linguistic talents are taken seriously, she replaces an incompetent Latino Communications Director who outranks her. He is the only Latino on the bridge and the only Latino not in a crowd shot in the Federation. Thus Uhura is the ultimate stand-in for race and gender b/c apparently you can have as many ethnic and alien bodies in one place at one time in Star Fleet but not more than one poc at a time.</p>
<p>@ Lance &#8211; actually the last few years of transformers, when they returned to their home planet, featured women transformers (most of whom were pink and extremely slender). I think there was some hope that they could do a spin off telling what the women had been up to b/c they were introduced at a time when shows like JEM and even Strawberry Shortcake were taking over the market. The Director of the first live action installment got massively criticized for failing to include the female transformers and his response was &#8220;I just couldn&#8217;t imagine how to fit them in.&#8221; (He actually said something very similar to this, tho I can&#8217;t say the quote is exact.) </p>
<p>@Jeremy Young &#8211; The reduction of Uhura to plot device is one of my major complaints as well. And as I note in my review, I think it is not only to highlight the conflict between Kirk and Spock (ie women as property) but also to support an underlining thesis about heroism as hyper-masculinity and heterosexuality. It is the same tactic they took in the alternate universe on the original series where Spock was Captain but also evil.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p>While we are talking &#8220;uniforms,&#8221; I do think it is important to note that many updated movies have actually made the women&#8217;s outfits worse, neither reflecting the fashion of the time nor the original. Watchmen for instance actually shrunk and tightened the outfits on the women while bulking up the outfits on the men. (The exception was Dr. Manhattan and his periodic full frontal.) And while there are some men who are scantily clad, there are also men in full coverage &#8211; some to the point that only their chin is uncovered &#8211; and the full coverage/enhanced muscle suits are becoming standard in film adaptations. So it isn&#8217;t that we cannot find men in far less clothing but the fact that we have to struggle to find women with any clothes at all.  The exception &#8211; X-Men, they have standardized uniform and w/the exception of Storm (who is also clothed head to toe) they mostly all wear it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-315965</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 14:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-315965</guid>
		<description>Erica--Uhura in this new movie seems to prove once again the terrible pressure put on a lone woman/POC character.  Why can&#039;t we have some women with romantic subplots, and some without?  It&#039;s all good, right?  So long as there are enough women characters to show them as individuals, not as representatives of All Women or All People of Color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erica&#8211;Uhura in this new movie seems to prove once again the terrible pressure put on a lone woman/POC character.  Why can&#8217;t we have some women with romantic subplots, and some without?  It&#8217;s all good, right?  So long as there are enough women characters to show them as individuals, not as representatives of All Women or All People of Color.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-315942</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 14:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-315942</guid>
		<description>Addendum to previous comment about Uhura -- I &lt;em&gt;would&lt;/em&gt; have been more pleased if they&#039;d foregone a romance subplot for her at all. Her character didn&#039;t need it, and it was done to highlight the Spock-Kirk interplay, making her more of a plot device than a unique person. So that particular part fell somewhere in the middle range of &quot;good representation&quot; in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Addendum to previous comment about Uhura &#8212; I <em>would</em> have been more pleased if they&#8217;d foregone a romance subplot for her at all. Her character didn&#8217;t need it, and it was done to highlight the Spock-Kirk interplay, making her more of a plot device than a unique person. So that particular part fell somewhere in the middle range of &#8220;good representation&#8221; in my opinion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/15/boldly-going-forward-cause-we-cant-find-reverse/comment-page-1/#comment-315937</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 14:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5284#comment-315937</guid>
		<description>@Jeremy -- &quot;despite her kick-ass specialization and expertise, the only thing she finds fulfilling is the prospect of being Mrs. Spock&quot; -- That&#039;s a narrow interpretation. She repeatedly stands up for herself professionally, first to get posted to the best ship in the fleet, then to point out she&#039;s fluent in the relevant languages and so should replace the crewmember on duty. If the &quot;only&quot; fulfilling thing was chasing Spock, then she would have been concentrating on that to the exclusion of other duties. She&#039;s allowed to have both a professional career &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; a personal life, y&#039;know.

@Lance -- &quot;Look, I love these movies. I do. But to love something uncritically is to be foolish.&quot; &lt;b&gt;AMEN!&lt;/b&gt; :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeremy &#8212; &#8220;despite her kick-ass specialization and expertise, the only thing she finds fulfilling is the prospect of being Mrs. Spock&#8221; &#8212; That&#8217;s a narrow interpretation. She repeatedly stands up for herself professionally, first to get posted to the best ship in the fleet, then to point out she&#8217;s fluent in the relevant languages and so should replace the crewmember on duty. If the &#8220;only&#8221; fulfilling thing was chasing Spock, then she would have been concentrating on that to the exclusion of other duties. She&#8217;s allowed to have both a professional career <em>and</em> a personal life, y&#8217;know.</p>
<p>@Lance &#8212; &#8220;Look, I love these movies. I do. But to love something uncritically is to be foolish.&#8221; <b>AMEN!</b> <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

