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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Quality&#8221; and women&#8217;s history journals</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Jane Recommends [Links] &#171; Hey Jane!</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313414</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Recommends [Links] &#171; Hey Jane!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 02:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] am &#124; In Publishing, Technology, Writing &#124; No Comments  Historiann has an interesting post about reputation and measures of quality in women&#8217;s history journals&#8211; mentions Gender &amp; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] am | In Publishing, Technology, Writing | No Comments  Historiann has an interesting post about reputation and measures of quality in women&#8217;s history journals&#8211; mentions Gender &amp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digger</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313413</link>
		<dc:creator>Digger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 02:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313413</guid>
		<description>Historiann,

Thanks for the response. I read the posts with Ruth Karras when they were first put up, and actually referred my students to them as a demystification of the whole academic/peer review publishing thing. 

I should also correct myself from my previous post. The American Anthropological Association, which encompasses archaeology as part of the 4-field anthropology model, has two sub-groups dealing with feminism and queer theory: The Society for Lesbian and Gay Anthropologists at http://www.uvm.edu/~dlrh/solga/  and The Association for Feminist Anthropology at http://www.aaanet.org/sections/afa/  Both groups publish newsletters, and encourage discussion and publication in the AAA journal. Generally, however, these are skewed in the direction of not-archaeology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann,</p>
<p>Thanks for the response. I read the posts with Ruth Karras when they were first put up, and actually referred my students to them as a demystification of the whole academic/peer review publishing thing. </p>
<p>I should also correct myself from my previous post. The American Anthropological Association, which encompasses archaeology as part of the 4-field anthropology model, has two sub-groups dealing with feminism and queer theory: The Society for Lesbian and Gay Anthropologists at <a href="http://www.uvm.edu/~dlrh/solga/" rel="nofollow">http://www.uvm.edu/~dlrh/solga/</a>  and The Association for Feminist Anthropology at <a href="http://www.aaanet.org/sections/afa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aaanet.org/sections/afa/</a>  Both groups publish newsletters, and encourage discussion and publication in the AAA journal. Generally, however, these are skewed in the direction of not-archaeology.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313257</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 22:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313257</guid>
		<description>Digger--thanks for the link.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.historiann.com/2009/03/15/historianncom-exclusive-ruth-karras-answers-your-questions-dishes-some-more/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ruth Karras addressed your question a few months ago&lt;/a&gt; when she answered questions about publishing in Gender &amp; History.  She wrote:



&lt;blockquote&gt;[I]f we publish all our work on women and gender in G &amp; H, Journal of Women’s History, etc., then there won’t be any work on women in the American Historical Review, William and Mary Quarterly, French Historical Studies, etc., and it’s important to be visible there too.  It can also be important to publish in journals that one’s departmental colleagues may recognize.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


I agree--but (speaking from my experience within my discipline) I think it&#039;s important to note that the reason there are journals like JWH and G&amp;H is that the non-women&#039;s history journals were hardly clamoring to publish the dernier cri in feminist scholarship when it started to appear in the 1960s and 1970s.  I would argue that women&#039;s historians still have trouble getting published in many non-women&#039;s history journals.  There still are a lot of reviewers out there who will automatically react with hostility and skepticism to women&#039;s and gender history, especially women&#039;s history that is more theoretically informed (i.e. not just Nice Segregated Ladies&#039; history but stuff that uses gender &amp; queer theory, etc.)

I would also add that if you publish an article in a women&#039;s or feminist journal, that&#039;s a good way of expanding your colleagues&#039; knowledge of archaeology journals!  They&#039;ll recognize that journal when they see it again on a younger colleague&#039;s CV, and remember fondly the excellent article you published there.

So in the end, it&#039;s unlikely that most of us can strategize that precisely about where our work gets published.  Just getting it published is the main thing--and sometimes, valuable months and years are lost beating your head against a closed door at one journal when another might welcome your work and usher it through publication in a courteous and timely fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digger&#8211;thanks for the link.  <a href="http://www.historiann.com/2009/03/15/historianncom-exclusive-ruth-karras-answers-your-questions-dishes-some-more/" rel="nofollow">Ruth Karras addressed your question a few months ago</a> when she answered questions about publishing in Gender &#038; History.  She wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>[I]f we publish all our work on women and gender in G &#038; H, Journal of Women’s History, etc., then there won’t be any work on women in the American Historical Review, William and Mary Quarterly, French Historical Studies, etc., and it’s important to be visible there too.  It can also be important to publish in journals that one’s departmental colleagues may recognize.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree&#8211;but (speaking from my experience within my discipline) I think it&#8217;s important to note that the reason there are journals like JWH and G&#038;H is that the non-women&#8217;s history journals were hardly clamoring to publish the dernier cri in feminist scholarship when it started to appear in the 1960s and 1970s.  I would argue that women&#8217;s historians still have trouble getting published in many non-women&#8217;s history journals.  There still are a lot of reviewers out there who will automatically react with hostility and skepticism to women&#8217;s and gender history, especially women&#8217;s history that is more theoretically informed (i.e. not just Nice Segregated Ladies&#8217; history but stuff that uses gender &#038; queer theory, etc.)</p>
<p>I would also add that if you publish an article in a women&#8217;s or feminist journal, that&#8217;s a good way of expanding your colleagues&#8217; knowledge of archaeology journals!  They&#8217;ll recognize that journal when they see it again on a younger colleague&#8217;s CV, and remember fondly the excellent article you published there.</p>
<p>So in the end, it&#8217;s unlikely that most of us can strategize that precisely about where our work gets published.  Just getting it published is the main thing&#8211;and sometimes, valuable months and years are lost beating your head against a closed door at one journal when another might welcome your work and usher it through publication in a courteous and timely fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Digger</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313228</link>
		<dc:creator>Digger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 22:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313228</guid>
		<description>Another list of feminist periodicals, which includes some history and anthropology journals. As well as a list/contact info of the various publications, this online publication also reproduces the current TOCs. Helpful to see if the journal might be a place to consider publishing.

FEMINIST PERIODICALS: A CURRENT LISTING OF CONTENTS
http://womenst.library.wisc.edu/publications/feminist-periodicals.html

I noticed, going through the various lists of periodicals, that archaeology is left out of the mix. (Yes, I know this is a history blog, but I&#039;m an historical archaeologist!) There are certainly publications of feminist work in the main historical archaeology journals, but no specialized journal publications that I&#039;m aware of focusing specifically on feminist/gendered/queered archaeology in general, never mind historical archaeology in particular. Do folks think this is beneficial (i.e. &quot;forced&quot; to publish in the main, cross-discipline journal, which = quality but has issues of publication lag, vs. having more focused journals available that may = questions of quality)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another list of feminist periodicals, which includes some history and anthropology journals. As well as a list/contact info of the various publications, this online publication also reproduces the current TOCs. Helpful to see if the journal might be a place to consider publishing.</p>
<p>FEMINIST PERIODICALS: A CURRENT LISTING OF CONTENTS<br />
<a href="http://womenst.library.wisc.edu/publications/feminist-periodicals.html" rel="nofollow">http://womenst.library.wisc.edu/publications/feminist-periodicals.html</a></p>
<p>I noticed, going through the various lists of periodicals, that archaeology is left out of the mix. (Yes, I know this is a history blog, but I&#8217;m an historical archaeologist!) There are certainly publications of feminist work in the main historical archaeology journals, but no specialized journal publications that I&#8217;m aware of focusing specifically on feminist/gendered/queered archaeology in general, never mind historical archaeology in particular. Do folks think this is beneficial (i.e. &#8220;forced&#8221; to publish in the main, cross-discipline journal, which = quality but has issues of publication lag, vs. having more focused journals available that may = questions of quality)?</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313164</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 21:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313164</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll also check H-WOMEN to see if anyone else writes in.  I have the same suspicions that you have!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll also check H-WOMEN to see if anyone else writes in.  I have the same suspicions that you have!</p>
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		<title>By: Bavardess</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313138</link>
		<dc:creator>Bavardess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 20:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313138</guid>
		<description>Thanks for following up on this. I saw the question on the listserv and was hoping a few more people would weigh in with their responses/advice. I read the original email as a case of one person&#039;s ingrained prejudice against women&#039;s history, which is going to be difficult to shift regardless of the amount of statistical evidence presented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for following up on this. I saw the question on the listserv and was hoping a few more people would weigh in with their responses/advice. I read the original email as a case of one person&#8217;s ingrained prejudice against women&#8217;s history, which is going to be difficult to shift regardless of the amount of statistical evidence presented.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313125</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 19:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313125</guid>
		<description>Shane and Susan--the kind of journal information you report that the MLA provides would be a great service.  (And not too difficult for the AHA to collect and publish on their website--most journal editors will be happy to comply if it might bring their journals some quality submissions.)

Notorious, I think you&#039;re right that the opinions of external reviewers are more important (and that most departments and college committees will weigh them more heavily than the perceived quality of one journal).  My suspicion in the case reported on H-Net is that the person making a stink over &quot;quality&quot; was motivated by bias against feminist scholarship, in which case, since the outside reviewers are more than likely other feminist scholars, it&#039;s a way of impeaching a candidate&#039;s work without engaging the evaluations by people who are in a position to comment knowledgeably about her contributions to her field.  (They&#039;re all &quot;biased&quot; as feminists who probably publish in women&#039;s history journals themselves--what the hell would they know about &quot;quality??&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shane and Susan&#8211;the kind of journal information you report that the MLA provides would be a great service.  (And not too difficult for the AHA to collect and publish on their website&#8211;most journal editors will be happy to comply if it might bring their journals some quality submissions.)</p>
<p>Notorious, I think you&#8217;re right that the opinions of external reviewers are more important (and that most departments and college committees will weigh them more heavily than the perceived quality of one journal).  My suspicion in the case reported on H-Net is that the person making a stink over &#8220;quality&#8221; was motivated by bias against feminist scholarship, in which case, since the outside reviewers are more than likely other feminist scholars, it&#8217;s a way of impeaching a candidate&#8217;s work without engaging the evaluations by people who are in a position to comment knowledgeably about her contributions to her field.  (They&#8217;re all &#8220;biased&#8221; as feminists who probably publish in women&#8217;s history journals themselves&#8211;what the hell would they know about &#8220;quality??&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Notorious Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313098</link>
		<dc:creator>Notorious Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 17:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313098</guid>
		<description>This fall as I was constructing my tenure file, I found myself wondering about the utility of acceptance rates as a measure of quality.  In the absence of any formal ranking of journals in history, I e-mailed the editors of the journals I had published in and asked them what their acceptance rates were.  The numbers looked impressive, but then I recalled that one journal (15%) accepted me as a revise and resubmit (that is, two submissions), and the other (7%) gave me *three* R &amp; R verdicts before finally accepting my article.  So if the second one has an acceptance rate of 7%, but I submitted the same article four times total, then how do the numbers work out as a measure of the quality of my work?  

And is there a better way?  In my opinion, the best measure is to note the acceptance rates, but to have external reviewers on your file narratively assess the quality of the publications for the benefit of the nonspecialists who will be reviewing your file.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This fall as I was constructing my tenure file, I found myself wondering about the utility of acceptance rates as a measure of quality.  In the absence of any formal ranking of journals in history, I e-mailed the editors of the journals I had published in and asked them what their acceptance rates were.  The numbers looked impressive, but then I recalled that one journal (15%) accepted me as a revise and resubmit (that is, two submissions), and the other (7%) gave me *three* R &amp; R verdicts before finally accepting my article.  So if the second one has an acceptance rate of 7%, but I submitted the same article four times total, then how do the numbers work out as a measure of the quality of my work?  </p>
<p>And is there a better way?  In my opinion, the best measure is to note the acceptance rates, but to have external reviewers on your file narratively assess the quality of the publications for the benefit of the nonspecialists who will be reviewing your file.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313065</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 17:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313065</guid>
		<description>Partly I get so annoyed by this approach to publication, which substitutes external measures for the serious evaluation of scholarship.  But you&#039;ve done a great job here of doing the scut work.  And yes, if you&#039;re hired in women&#039;s history, you will publish in women&#039;s history journals.  Duh!

It&#039;s too bad the AHA doesn&#039;t do the same thing with journals that the MLA does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Partly I get so annoyed by this approach to publication, which substitutes external measures for the serious evaluation of scholarship.  But you&#8217;ve done a great job here of doing the scut work.  And yes, if you&#8217;re hired in women&#8217;s history, you will publish in women&#8217;s history journals.  Duh!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s too bad the AHA doesn&#8217;t do the same thing with journals that the MLA does.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane in Utah</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/05/11/quality-and-womens-history-journals/comment-page-1/#comment-313059</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane in Utah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 16:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=5186#comment-313059</guid>
		<description>The MLA makes available online its Directory of Periodicals, which reports how many submissions each literature and language journal receives per year, and how many articles each one publishes. I guess there&#039;s no equivalent database for history journals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MLA makes available online its Directory of Periodicals, which reports how many submissions each literature and language journal receives per year, and how many articles each one publishes. I guess there&#8217;s no equivalent database for history journals?</p>
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