Comments on: Guns, threats, space, and gender

By: Concealed Carry Supporters are not “nuts” « Knitting Clio

Concealed Carry Supporters are not “nuts” « Knitting Clio — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:29:42 +0000

[...] are joining nationwide “empty holster” protests. I share the same concerns raised here and here, yet I’m just as disturbed by comments that refer to gun supporters as [...]

By: Historiann

Historiann — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:18:55 +0000

Thanks for stopping by to comment redzils. It’s interesting to note that to my knowledge, the leaders in this arm-the-students movement aren’t people who have witnessed or been a part of school shootings, and I’m unaware if there are any activists who were directly involved in these events who think that arming everyone to the teeth is really a solution to the problem. (I could be wrong–it just strikes me that these arm-the-students proponents are more affiliated with the NRA than any other lobby/movment/faction.)

By: redzils

redzils — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:47:06 +0000

I don’t know that I have anything remarkable to add to this conversation but I will share that I taught on the Virginia Tech campus the year of the shooting. I don’t think putting more guns on campuses, particularly in the hands of students with limited “training,” would ever make me feel safer.

By: Let’s play “What’s Wrong with This Headline?” : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present

Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:32:33 +0000

[...] example of the news media doing the work of our culture in erasing or obscuring the deadly combination of modal American masculinity and gun violence! But shhhhhh! We can’t talk about that–it’s against the Bill of Rights! The [...]

By: Digger

Digger — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:55:02 +0000

I had a colleague comment re: this, essentially, “Well, what do you expect from Missouri and Texas.” Unfortunately, I expected that they might well be the thin edge of the wedge; Knitting Clio’s comment about the demonstrations in the NE confirm it.

I’m really tired of the “Guns make people safer” argument. Other people having them doesn’t make me safer, and me having one wouldn’t either. It would just put me in a position of having to make split second decisions about using it. Any confrontation where one or all involved have a gun, even when not drawn, is an armed confrontation. That, and if they’re concealed weapons, I must, by default, assume that everyone else has one. Which makes every interaction an armed interaction. Not conducive to learning or teaching, imo.

Then again, perhaps I’m just an hysterical woman. [snerk]

By: Knitting Clio

Knitting Clio — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:00:39 +0000

Next week, students on my campus and at UConn are holding an “empty holster” demonstration in favor of allowing concealed weapons on campus. As one colleague pointed out, how do we know all the holsters will be empty? Maybe someone will see this as a great opportunity to bring a gun to campus.

Also, about a week after the Virginia Tech shootings, a female student in my women’s history class bragged about her experience with firearms and argued she and other students — as well as professors — should be allowed to carry guns for protection. So, there are women who are pro-gun, although fewer than men obviously.

By: life_of_a_fool

life_of_a_fool — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:58:50 +0000

The other gendered dimension here is related to fear of crime. Women tend to be more fearful than men, and to adjust their behavior accordingly, even though men are more likely to be victimized. That may relate to why your colleague’s male students didn’t express the same fears (though they may have felt it, but felt less comfortable expressing it).

And while I get your point, Historiann, about gendered dimensions of gun ownership, I don’t think male interests are being served here either. In the case of school shootings, absent maybe a specific intended target, it would seem that men and women would be more or less equally likely to be shot. But, in general, men are more likely to be victimized (by other men). So allowing guns on campus isn’t helping men any either. . .

By: Lilian Nattel

Lilian Nattel — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:21:31 +0000

You make an interesting point. What are the gender differences in the ownership and use of guns and attitudes toward them?

By: Historiann

Historiann — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:02:11 +0000

Bertie–to be clear: I have no complaints about the IHE piece. My point is that no one anywhere talks about how the debate over guns on campus is really a discussion that leaves out the majority of college students because of the gendered dimensions of gun ownership in the U.S. I think Kelly’s analysis is correct, but it also exemplifies the problem in talking about campus environments: only men’s interests are truly considered, and we don’t consider women’s rights to use their campus equally and fearlessly.

Digger, I fear that your point about the budget is probably an apt one. Unfortunately, this jibes with a “wild west” mentality out here in general that suggests that somehow it’s cheaper and easier to make everyone responsible for their own selves. We don’t want to pay taxes for snowplows–it makes so much more sense for people to drive trucks and SUVs on dry streets 361 days of the year so they can blast through the snow 4 days per year! We don’t want to pay taxes to make universities safe–so let’s make sure every student has a gun! Yeah! Great idea!

Clio B.: Good points. I am more concerned about students using guns against each other and perhaps against faculty. One thing about the faculty bullies I knew is that they were uniformly physical cowards–petty bureaucrats who used paper and words to push people around, and who collapsed pretty quickly when I called them on it. I don’t think any of them own guns. But that’s not every bully–and you’re right that there’s no preventing an armed person from snapping.

By: blue epiphany

blue epiphany — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:16:33 +0000

It’s interesting that this is a response to the big school shootings, where a (male) student comes in with a gun, and they think that other students, if they have guns, will be able to fight back.
What about regular, everyday murders?
The timing of this Inside Higher Ed article is really mind boggling, given that 7 days earlier, on April 10, a man murdered a fellow student and then killed himself with a shotgun at Henry Ford Community College in Michigan.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihz7TB_PYuLVRXlh9Cr1wnasNZPgD97FTNL02

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090413/METRO01/904130324/&imw=Y

Note that the first article quotes a 12 year old who was in the building attending a theater program when the shooting happened. Colleges are public spaces; perhaps that is also being overlooked here, as, according to Wikipedia, generally concealed carry is not allowed in public spaces (government buildings, theaters, public parks, etc).
How many more incidents like the one in Michigan do you think would happen if concealed weapons were allowed on college campuses?