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	<title>Comments on: Amorphous system beats, kills women and children!</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Let&#8217;s play &#8220;What&#8217;s Wrong with This Headline?&#8221; : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-294124</link>
		<dc:creator>Let&#8217;s play &#8220;What&#8217;s Wrong with This Headline?&#8221; : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-294124</guid>
		<description>[...] is yet another sickening example of the news media doing the work of our culture in erasing or obscuring the deadly combination of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is yet another sickening example of the news media doing the work of our culture in erasing or obscuring the deadly combination of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Zero</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-286752</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Zero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 01:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-286752</guid>
		<description>I sought support for getting out of a violent relationship and what people, including experts, had to say was that there was no point in getting out because if I was in such a relationship now, I&#039;d seek another as soon as I left this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sought support for getting out of a violent relationship and what people, including experts, had to say was that there was no point in getting out because if I was in such a relationship now, I&#8217;d seek another as soon as I left this one.</p>
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		<title>By: squadratomagico</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-286407</link>
		<dc:creator>squadratomagico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-286407</guid>
		<description>Hm... I just read that FBI statistics tie women to just 7% of murders of any sort. This includes their involvement as accomplices to men; solo murders by women are apparently quite rare.

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/04/12/D97H3FT80_girl_in_suitcase/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm&#8230; I just read that FBI statistics tie women to just 7% of murders of any sort. This includes their involvement as accomplices to men; solo murders by women are apparently quite rare.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/04/12/D97H3FT80_girl_in_suitcase/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2009/04/12/D97H3FT80_girl_in_suitcase/index.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-286317</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-286317</guid>
		<description>Emma--good point.  I hadn&#039;t realized that TBTN marches pretended that violence in public spaces was an equal opportunity thing.  (I don&#039;t mind TBTN being used to highlight violence against LBGTQ people--the issues that transgender people, gay men, and lesbians face with attacks on them because of their sexuality are similar to those faced by women.  But let&#039;s not pretend that everyone is affected equally.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emma&#8211;good point.  I hadn&#8217;t realized that TBTN marches pretended that violence in public spaces was an equal opportunity thing.  (I don&#8217;t mind TBTN being used to highlight violence against LBGTQ people&#8211;the issues that transgender people, gay men, and lesbians face with attacks on them because of their sexuality are similar to those faced by women.  But let&#8217;s not pretend that everyone is affected equally.)</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285940</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 05:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285940</guid>
		<description>Another place the male perpetrator gets hidden is in take back the night marches which have become co-ed events focusing on violence against everybody.  This is the announcement from the Columbia/Barnard TBTN rally:

&quot;The mission of Take Back the Night March and Speakout is to break the silence about sexual violence by inviting the Morningside Heights community to gather together, as survivors, allies, family, friends, neighbors and strangers, to support each other and protest the violence that affects all of us. The march is an opportunity to re-claim the streets of New York City, the neighborhood of Morningside Heights, and the Columbia campus as safe spaces. After the march, we host a Speakout, during which community members speak anonymously about their experiences. The march is wheelchair accessible. Free childcare will be provided. ASL signer will be present during pre-march rally.&quot;

It isn&#039;t about violence against women by men.  It&#039;s about amorphous &quot;violence that affects all of us.&quot;  It&#039;s about reclaiming the streets of NY as &quot;safe spaces&quot; for, apparently, everybody.  That&#039;s a problem, IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another place the male perpetrator gets hidden is in take back the night marches which have become co-ed events focusing on violence against everybody.  This is the announcement from the Columbia/Barnard TBTN rally:</p>
<p>&#8220;The mission of Take Back the Night March and Speakout is to break the silence about sexual violence by inviting the Morningside Heights community to gather together, as survivors, allies, family, friends, neighbors and strangers, to support each other and protest the violence that affects all of us. The march is an opportunity to re-claim the streets of New York City, the neighborhood of Morningside Heights, and the Columbia campus as safe spaces. After the march, we host a Speakout, during which community members speak anonymously about their experiences. The march is wheelchair accessible. Free childcare will be provided. ASL signer will be present during pre-march rally.&#8221;</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t about violence against women by men.  It&#8217;s about amorphous &#8220;violence that affects all of us.&#8221;  It&#8217;s about reclaiming the streets of NY as &#8220;safe spaces&#8221; for, apparently, everybody.  That&#8217;s a problem, IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Bavardess</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285787</link>
		<dc:creator>Bavardess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285787</guid>
		<description>Terms like &quot;domestic violence&quot; and &quot;date rape&quot; add a level of abstraction and &#039;rationalisation&#039; that serves to obscure the true nature of the crime, I think. The false rape accusation thing drives me mad. Women are assaulted and raped every day and rate at best a few lines on the inside pages of the paper, but the (very occasional) false complaint gets front page headlines and is usually accompanied by fevered calls for a review of evidence laws and police procedure. Where I live, there has recently been a fairly serious campaign to return to the bad old days of requiring some sort of 3rd party/independent corroboration for a rape complaint to even be investigated by the police.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terms like &#8220;domestic violence&#8221; and &#8220;date rape&#8221; add a level of abstraction and &#8216;rationalisation&#8217; that serves to obscure the true nature of the crime, I think. The false rape accusation thing drives me mad. Women are assaulted and raped every day and rate at best a few lines on the inside pages of the paper, but the (very occasional) false complaint gets front page headlines and is usually accompanied by fevered calls for a review of evidence laws and police procedure. Where I live, there has recently been a fairly serious campaign to return to the bad old days of requiring some sort of 3rd party/independent corroboration for a rape complaint to even be investigated by the police.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285666</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285666</guid>
		<description>p.s.  From Suzie at Echidne, &lt;a href=&quot;http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html#7926262980092078926&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a lovely example of the mainstreaming of rape humor in a new movie&lt;/a&gt;.  Ha-ha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>p.s.  From Suzie at Echidne, <a href="http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html#7926262980092078926" rel="nofollow">a lovely example of the mainstreaming of rape humor in a new movie</a>.  Ha-ha!</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285614</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285614</guid>
		<description>Belle--you know, I&#039;ve just been thinking along the same lines about the language we use (&quot;domestic violence&quot; instead of &quot;murder,&quot; &quot;assault,&quot; &quot;rape,&quot; etc.)  The  somewhat clinical and dispassionate term &quot;domestic violence&quot; also puts emphasis on the &quot;domestic&quot; nature of the &quot;violence&quot;--as though the fact that it happens in domestic space and/or within a family relationship is an important qualifier of the violence.  

The effect of this is like what happens to the word &quot;rape&quot; when you call the crime &quot;acquaintance rape&quot; or &quot;date rape.&quot;  It undermines the notion that a woman wasn&#039;t consenting, so therefore it calls into question the use of the term &quot;rape.&quot;  How is it any less of a &quot;rape&quot; if a woman knows the perp or has even in the past had a consensual sexual relationship with him?  (Oh, yeah:  and the fact that most rape victims know their attackers makes it a handy way not to have to prosecute rapists!  Because we all know that the biggest problem with rape is that women might accuse a man falsely...)

Susan&#039;s comment gets at this victim-blaming rather than perp-blaming angle too:  yes, let&#039;s blame those stupid crying babies!  Why can&#039;t they just STFU when daddy says so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belle&#8211;you know, I&#8217;ve just been thinking along the same lines about the language we use (&#8220;domestic violence&#8221; instead of &#8220;murder,&#8221; &#8220;assault,&#8221; &#8220;rape,&#8221; etc.)  The  somewhat clinical and dispassionate term &#8220;domestic violence&#8221; also puts emphasis on the &#8220;domestic&#8221; nature of the &#8220;violence&#8221;&#8211;as though the fact that it happens in domestic space and/or within a family relationship is an important qualifier of the violence.  </p>
<p>The effect of this is like what happens to the word &#8220;rape&#8221; when you call the crime &#8220;acquaintance rape&#8221; or &#8220;date rape.&#8221;  It undermines the notion that a woman wasn&#8217;t consenting, so therefore it calls into question the use of the term &#8220;rape.&#8221;  How is it any less of a &#8220;rape&#8221; if a woman knows the perp or has even in the past had a consensual sexual relationship with him?  (Oh, yeah:  and the fact that most rape victims know their attackers makes it a handy way not to have to prosecute rapists!  Because we all know that the biggest problem with rape is that women might accuse a man falsely&#8230;)</p>
<p>Susan&#8217;s comment gets at this victim-blaming rather than perp-blaming angle too:  yes, let&#8217;s blame those stupid crying babies!  Why can&#8217;t they just STFU when daddy says so?</p>
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		<title>By: Belle</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285607</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285607</guid>
		<description>Ditto. I&#039;m always horrified by the media/social gloss that is blind to the fact that men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators in DV cases. Another one that gets me: when the media puts up this big hooha about a woman teacher and a young male - after generations of it being male teachers hitting on students, that&#039;s not news. 

What would happen if we went back to calling it wife/child beating/abuse and quit hiding it behind DV?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto. I&#8217;m always horrified by the media/social gloss that is blind to the fact that men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators in DV cases. Another one that gets me: when the media puts up this big hooha about a woman teacher and a young male &#8211; after generations of it being male teachers hitting on students, that&#8217;s not news. </p>
<p>What would happen if we went back to calling it wife/child beating/abuse and quit hiding it behind DV?</p>
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		<title>By: ADM</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/04/11/amorphous-system-beats-kills-women-and-children/comment-page-1/#comment-285454</link>
		<dc:creator>ADM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=4577#comment-285454</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a question, and one I doubt will get &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; examination:  how might this play out in same-sex couples, with or without children.  Anecdotally, the dynamics in families where one female partner is the primary caretaker for the children are pretty similar to what they are in heterosexual situations, if there is domestic violence. I have absolutely no idea for rates of domestic violence between gay male couples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question, and one I doubt will get <i>any</i> examination:  how might this play out in same-sex couples, with or without children.  Anecdotally, the dynamics in families where one female partner is the primary caretaker for the children are pretty similar to what they are in heterosexual situations, if there is domestic violence. I have absolutely no idea for rates of domestic violence between gay male couples.</p>
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