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	<title>Comments on: Assess-mints, now with extra pointlessness!</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Assess-mints, now with extra extra pointlessness! : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-795817</link>
		<dc:creator>Assess-mints, now with extra extra pointlessness! : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 22:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-795817</guid>
		<description>[...] Oooh, Bardiac&#8211;don&#8217;t &#8220;despair!&#8221;  Have an assess-mint&#8211;they&#8217;re new and improved, with extra extra pointlessness! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oooh, Bardiac&#8211;don&#8217;t &#8220;despair!&#8221;  Have an assess-mint&#8211;they&#8217;re new and improved, with extra extra pointlessness! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Privatization: what could possibly go wrong? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-494162</link>
		<dc:creator>Privatization: what could possibly go wrong? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-494162</guid>
		<description>[...] How do we know university education as it is now actually works, without endless assessment of academic programs, and without subjecting the faculty to workshops teaching them how to teach today&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How do we know university education as it is now actually works, without endless assessment of academic programs, and without subjecting the faculty to workshops teaching them how to teach today&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Friday round-up: we ain&#8217;t got the do-re-mi : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-213130</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday round-up: we ain&#8217;t got the do-re-mi : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-213130</guid>
		<description>[...] on your teaching evaluations.  (That is, unless you still don&#8217;t have access to them because your university foolishly went with an on-line system that is even less fair, thorough, or reliable than the old scan-tron [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on your teaching evaluations.  (That is, unless you still don&#8217;t have access to them because your university foolishly went with an on-line system that is even less fair, thorough, or reliable than the old scan-tron [...]</p>
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		<title>By: undine</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207885</link>
		<dc:creator>undine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207885</guid>
		<description>Great post, Historiann.  About your comment @1:40:  I&#039;m not sure the online evals would go away even if they&#039;re shown to be useless, because administrators are interested in numbers and data. Usefulness is beside the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Historiann.  About your comment @1:40:  I&#8217;m not sure the online evals would go away even if they&#8217;re shown to be useless, because administrators are interested in numbers and data. Usefulness is beside the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207805</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207805</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link, Ph.D. in History, but I have to say that it&#039;s not surprising that the top-rated teachers have what looks to me like an extremely suspicious grading history of giving As to 52-73% of their students!  They may in fact also be fine teachers, but this just confirms my suspicions and those of all of the other commenters here about the fatuity of student evaluations in general, but of these facebook/myspace/Infotainment-app friendly incarnations in particular.  

This ain&#039;t Lake Woebegon.  All of the children are NOT above average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Ph.D. in History, but I have to say that it&#8217;s not surprising that the top-rated teachers have what looks to me like an extremely suspicious grading history of giving As to 52-73% of their students!  They may in fact also be fine teachers, but this just confirms my suspicions and those of all of the other commenters here about the fatuity of student evaluations in general, but of these facebook/myspace/Infotainment-app friendly incarnations in particular.  </p>
<p>This ain&#8217;t Lake Woebegon.  All of the children are NOT above average.</p>
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		<title>By: PhDinHistory</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207736</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDinHistory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 03:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207736</guid>
		<description>One of my friends just &lt;a href=&quot;http://oudaily.com/news/2009/jan/21/pick--prof-allows-students-grade-professors/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;appeared in the student newspaper&lt;/a&gt; at my institution because he has high student ratings and history of giving lots of A&#039;s, according to Pick a Prof.

Rate My Professors is already an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=4780276854&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;app on FB&lt;/a&gt;.  This allows FB users to access student-written reviews of professors and their grade histories.

There are a few reasons why I am glad to see these developments.  I think students have a right to know in advance whether the prof they are thinking of taking a class from is a jerk.  When everyone has access to every prof&#039;s grading histories, via Pick a Prof, it can create pressure for the hard and easy instructors to move toward the average when it comes to assigning grades.  The reviewing process online also creates a way for students to hold professors accountable for providing quality teaching.

I agree that you all have good points about how these kinds of online web sites can encourage the consumer-mindset of our students.  And students are certainly not always the best judge of how much and whether they have learned things during the semester.  One simple way to solve this dilemma might be for our departments to design a pre- and post-test for the freshmen survey classes.  The students would be told that the test was part of their grade and the results would provide a useful measure of how much the students were learning over the course of the semester, as well as how different sections taught by different instructors compared.  These department-provided tests could count for less than 5% of the overall grade, so professors wouldn&#039;t have to feel like they were teaching to the test.  In our 200, 300, and 400 level classes, I think students should be offered extra credit if they will keep a typed weekly journal that briefly tracks the teaching in their course and then submit it along with a one- or two-page report to the department chair or dean at the end of the semester.  I think we should take the initiative in coming up with innovative ways to obtain teaching/course evaluations, before standards and practices emerge with new technologies that could shut out our input.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my friends just <a href="http://oudaily.com/news/2009/jan/21/pick--prof-allows-students-grade-professors/" rel="nofollow">appeared in the student newspaper</a> at my institution because he has high student ratings and history of giving lots of A&#8217;s, according to Pick a Prof.</p>
<p>Rate My Professors is already an <a href="http://www.facebook.com/apps/application.php?id=4780276854" rel="nofollow">app on FB</a>.  This allows FB users to access student-written reviews of professors and their grade histories.</p>
<p>There are a few reasons why I am glad to see these developments.  I think students have a right to know in advance whether the prof they are thinking of taking a class from is a jerk.  When everyone has access to every prof&#8217;s grading histories, via Pick a Prof, it can create pressure for the hard and easy instructors to move toward the average when it comes to assigning grades.  The reviewing process online also creates a way for students to hold professors accountable for providing quality teaching.</p>
<p>I agree that you all have good points about how these kinds of online web sites can encourage the consumer-mindset of our students.  And students are certainly not always the best judge of how much and whether they have learned things during the semester.  One simple way to solve this dilemma might be for our departments to design a pre- and post-test for the freshmen survey classes.  The students would be told that the test was part of their grade and the results would provide a useful measure of how much the students were learning over the course of the semester, as well as how different sections taught by different instructors compared.  These department-provided tests could count for less than 5% of the overall grade, so professors wouldn&#8217;t have to feel like they were teaching to the test.  In our 200, 300, and 400 level classes, I think students should be offered extra credit if they will keep a typed weekly journal that briefly tracks the teaching in their course and then submit it along with a one- or two-page report to the department chair or dean at the end of the semester.  I think we should take the initiative in coming up with innovative ways to obtain teaching/course evaluations, before standards and practices emerge with new technologies that could shut out our input.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207564</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207564</guid>
		<description>Exactly, Dr. C.--the evals at my university are meant to be used by T &amp; P committees and department chairs in evaluating faculty performance and, in part, in deciding annual raises.  (In the event there is a raise in the works--there won&#039;t be this year.)  &quot;Incentivizing&quot; students by entering them in raffles for football tickets and new pickup trucks just seems to feed the consumer-oriented beast that demands infotainment rather than education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Dr. C.&#8211;the evals at my university are meant to be used by T &#038; P committees and department chairs in evaluating faculty performance and, in part, in deciding annual raises.  (In the event there is a raise in the works&#8211;there won&#8217;t be this year.)  &#8220;Incentivizing&#8221; students by entering them in raffles for football tickets and new pickup trucks just seems to feed the consumer-oriented beast that demands infotainment rather than education.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Crazy</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207358</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Crazy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207358</guid>
		<description>You know, it occurs to me that before we can evaluate the feasibility of doing evals online, we need to know what they&#039;re for.  If they&#039;re to give students a voice, help students with figuring out which profs they&#039;d like to take, etc., then perhaps what PhDinHistory describes is an improvement on the current system.  If they&#039;re supposed to me a measure for evaluating faculty performance - and if they&#039;re used to calculate things like merit pay and to determine whether a person has earned tenure - perhaps we need a method of delivery that reflects the seriousness of that?  Because here&#039;s the thing: I wouldn&#039;t want my merit pay (or god forbid, tenure) to depend on my students being jazzed to win football tickets.  What if I&#039;ve got a class filled with people who look with disdain on such prizes (and really, students I teach look with disdain on most things, which may have something to do with the sorts of students who gravitate toward my discipline generally and the kinds of courses I teach specifically)?  Or what if they don&#039;t give substantive feedback, but rather just write any old thing in order to get their name in the raffle?  Is that really useful information?

Finally, and this is the problem that most of my colleagues had when we discussed the move to online evaluations: we&#039;re all convinced that our students will only fill them out when they are drunk or stoned.  This may say more about what kind of students we ourselves were than about our students.  It also fails to note that it could well be the case that students could be drunk or stoned in class on evaluation day as well....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it occurs to me that before we can evaluate the feasibility of doing evals online, we need to know what they&#8217;re for.  If they&#8217;re to give students a voice, help students with figuring out which profs they&#8217;d like to take, etc., then perhaps what PhDinHistory describes is an improvement on the current system.  If they&#8217;re supposed to me a measure for evaluating faculty performance &#8211; and if they&#8217;re used to calculate things like merit pay and to determine whether a person has earned tenure &#8211; perhaps we need a method of delivery that reflects the seriousness of that?  Because here&#8217;s the thing: I wouldn&#8217;t want my merit pay (or god forbid, tenure) to depend on my students being jazzed to win football tickets.  What if I&#8217;ve got a class filled with people who look with disdain on such prizes (and really, students I teach look with disdain on most things, which may have something to do with the sorts of students who gravitate toward my discipline generally and the kinds of courses I teach specifically)?  Or what if they don&#8217;t give substantive feedback, but rather just write any old thing in order to get their name in the raffle?  Is that really useful information?</p>
<p>Finally, and this is the problem that most of my colleagues had when we discussed the move to online evaluations: we&#8217;re all convinced that our students will only fill them out when they are drunk or stoned.  This may say more about what kind of students we ourselves were than about our students.  It also fails to note that it could well be the case that students could be drunk or stoned in class on evaluation day as well&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207259</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207259</guid>
		<description>PhD in History--those incentives might work to elicit more responses, but they wouldn&#039;t seem to encourage very professional or useful responses.  Are there such programs at universities now?  Please, fill us in and don&#039;t be coy.

My university has a website hosted by student government that features volunteer evaluations, but those suffer the same problmes as the Rate My Professor website--it&#039;s only the really happy or the truly disgruntled who respond.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PhD in History&#8211;those incentives might work to elicit more responses, but they wouldn&#8217;t seem to encourage very professional or useful responses.  Are there such programs at universities now?  Please, fill us in and don&#8217;t be coy.</p>
<p>My university has a website hosted by student government that features volunteer evaluations, but those suffer the same problmes as the Rate My Professor website&#8211;it&#8217;s only the really happy or the truly disgruntled who respond.</p>
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		<title>By: PhDinHistory</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/02/01/assess-mints-now-with-extra-pointlessness/comment-page-1/#comment-207251</link>
		<dc:creator>PhDinHistory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3302#comment-207251</guid>
		<description>Is it really that hard to imagine that making student evaluations available through Facebook, placing participants into a drawing for season football tickets or free textbooks at the bookstore, and making the aggregate results of all student evaluations available on the student government web site are all feasible and starting to happen at some campuses?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really that hard to imagine that making student evaluations available through Facebook, placing participants into a drawing for season football tickets or free textbooks at the bookstore, and making the aggregate results of all student evaluations available on the student government web site are all feasible and starting to happen at some campuses?</p>
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