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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Radical&#8221; feminism:  Groundhog Day?</title>
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	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Kristen E.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-249397</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 04:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know that sometimes I don&#039;t advertise the fact that I am a feminist because I am a pro-life feminist (something that some people think is an oxymoron).  I feel like I don&#039;t quite fit into most feminist circles.  But, the older I get, the more I say &quot;f--k it.&quot;  I&#039;m a feminist.  Period.

I don&#039;t know that this was the case with Notorious Ph.D.&#039;s students, but it is a possibility, I suppose.  

P.S. I don&#039;t mean that as a condemnation of pro-choice feminists or anything; it&#039;s just an observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that sometimes I don&#8217;t advertise the fact that I am a feminist because I am a pro-life feminist (something that some people think is an oxymoron).  I feel like I don&#8217;t quite fit into most feminist circles.  But, the older I get, the more I say &#8220;f&#8211;k it.&#8221;  I&#8217;m a feminist.  Period.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know that this was the case with Notorious Ph.D.&#8217;s students, but it is a possibility, I suppose.  </p>
<p>P.S. I don&#8217;t mean that as a condemnation of pro-choice feminists or anything; it&#8217;s just an observation.</p>
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		<title>By: Lasslisa</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-217973</link>
		<dc:creator>Lasslisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-217973</guid>
		<description>This is a few days late, but I felt like I had something useful to add.  As a recent college grad who identifies as a feminist among other things, I can tell you one reason we avoid labels.  When we label ourselves, other people think they can use that to tell us what to do.

So, if you identify as a feminist, you have to deal with comments like, &quot;If you were a REAL feminist, you would keep your maiden name (or make your husband change his), let yourself be defined at work by your constant agitation for better childcare options, not stay at home with your children for one day longer than your husband does, etc.&quot;

So what about women who want to stay at home with their kids (or who at least respect that choice), but who also want to do freelance web design and who donate to Planned Parenthood?  It&#039;s just not as simple as &quot;with us or against us&quot;, here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a few days late, but I felt like I had something useful to add.  As a recent college grad who identifies as a feminist among other things, I can tell you one reason we avoid labels.  When we label ourselves, other people think they can use that to tell us what to do.</p>
<p>So, if you identify as a feminist, you have to deal with comments like, &#8220;If you were a REAL feminist, you would keep your maiden name (or make your husband change his), let yourself be defined at work by your constant agitation for better childcare options, not stay at home with your children for one day longer than your husband does, etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>So what about women who want to stay at home with their kids (or who at least respect that choice), but who also want to do freelance web design and who donate to Planned Parenthood?  It&#8217;s just not as simple as &#8220;with us or against us&#8221;, here.</p>
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		<title>By: twandx</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-209379</link>
		<dc:creator>twandx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-209379</guid>
		<description>I hear you Historiann.  I argue against the media constructed term, feminist, because I want to see equality for my gender - equality for all women.

We do not see men, who may object to our equality, splitting themselves off as masculanists.  No, they are men, males keep their identity.

And I still find most women laugh out loud when they hear, &quot;I am feminist, hear me roar.&quot;

No, I shall not water down my gender or its fight for equality with cute, frilly names.  

My formal education was in science.  While teaching in a medical school for many many years, I&#039;ve seen a lot of history.  From when women were not even allowed in to where over half the classes were women.

They were fighters, they were women and they made history and I was privileged to teach and learn from so many of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you Historiann.  I argue against the media constructed term, feminist, because I want to see equality for my gender &#8211; equality for all women.</p>
<p>We do not see men, who may object to our equality, splitting themselves off as masculanists.  No, they are men, males keep their identity.</p>
<p>And I still find most women laugh out loud when they hear, &#8220;I am feminist, hear me roar.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, I shall not water down my gender or its fight for equality with cute, frilly names.  </p>
<p>My formal education was in science.  While teaching in a medical school for many many years, I&#8217;ve seen a lot of history.  From when women were not even allowed in to where over half the classes were women.</p>
<p>They were fighters, they were women and they made history and I was privileged to teach and learn from so many of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-205083</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-205083</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all of your thoughts on feminism--I had a day full of appointments and other obligations yesterday, so I&#039;m sorry I couldn&#039;t have participated in the discussion.

I will say that I think (re?)claiming the label &quot;feminist&quot; is, if not the solution, it&#039;s certainly not the problem, as twandx suggests.  I think it&#039;s important for feminists to identify as feminists, and to give voice to feminist concerns and call them feminist.  (At the very least, it&#039;s participating in scrubbing history of feminists not to claim certain issues and causes as feminist, and to ignore their history of activism.)  While I think that Squadratomagico is correct in that it&#039;s perhaps largely a rejection of a label, rather than a rejection of the ideas, I wonder why it is that (for example) lots of university-affiliated people are happy to affiliate with anti-racism causes and gay rights causes, but they hold back at calling themselves feminist.  (Not everyone mind you, but the target audience I&#039;m thinking of.)  At bottom, I&#039;m concerned that this is a kind of erasure of women from political history--the &quot;girls are icky&quot; school, so we should ignore or minimize their work so that men can take credit for advancing X cause, because if we acknowledge women&#039;s work in it it will make it look less important or less significant.

I would like to take Notorious up on her offer to do a dual-post on Judith Bennett&#039;s History Matters in March--it&#039;s an excellent idea!  (She&#039;s braver than I in assigning it to undergrads--while I think most grad students and professional women&#039;s historians will dig it and be able to follow the professional gossip, I&#039;d be concerned that the names and references to scholars and books would be a little off-putting to an audience of non-specialists.  So, I&#039;m eager to hear what her students make of it!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all of your thoughts on feminism&#8211;I had a day full of appointments and other obligations yesterday, so I&#8217;m sorry I couldn&#8217;t have participated in the discussion.</p>
<p>I will say that I think (re?)claiming the label &#8220;feminist&#8221; is, if not the solution, it&#8217;s certainly not the problem, as twandx suggests.  I think it&#8217;s important for feminists to identify as feminists, and to give voice to feminist concerns and call them feminist.  (At the very least, it&#8217;s participating in scrubbing history of feminists not to claim certain issues and causes as feminist, and to ignore their history of activism.)  While I think that Squadratomagico is correct in that it&#8217;s perhaps largely a rejection of a label, rather than a rejection of the ideas, I wonder why it is that (for example) lots of university-affiliated people are happy to affiliate with anti-racism causes and gay rights causes, but they hold back at calling themselves feminist.  (Not everyone mind you, but the target audience I&#8217;m thinking of.)  At bottom, I&#8217;m concerned that this is a kind of erasure of women from political history&#8211;the &#8220;girls are icky&#8221; school, so we should ignore or minimize their work so that men can take credit for advancing X cause, because if we acknowledge women&#8217;s work in it it will make it look less important or less significant.</p>
<p>I would like to take Notorious up on her offer to do a dual-post on Judith Bennett&#8217;s History Matters in March&#8211;it&#8217;s an excellent idea!  (She&#8217;s braver than I in assigning it to undergrads&#8211;while I think most grad students and professional women&#8217;s historians will dig it and be able to follow the professional gossip, I&#8217;d be concerned that the names and references to scholars and books would be a little off-putting to an audience of non-specialists.  So, I&#8217;m eager to hear what her students make of it!)</p>
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		<title>By: Groundhog Day</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-204402</link>
		<dc:creator>Groundhog Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 00:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-204402</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Radical&#8221; feminism: Groundhog Day? : Historiann : History and ... (historiann.com) - January 29, 2009to fall for the notion that since the date on the calendar has changed, that things must be so much better than they were? Why do I fear that the last thirty years of U.S. feminist history (at lea&#8230;    more Groundhog Day blog posts ... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &ldquo;Radical&rdquo; feminism: Groundhog Day? : Historiann : History and &#8230; (historiann.com) &#8211; January 29, 2009to fall for the notion that since the date on the calendar has changed, that things must be so much better than they were? Why do I fear that the last thirty years of U.S. feminist history (at lea&hellip;    more Groundhog Day blog posts &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: squadratomagico</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-204117</link>
		<dc:creator>squadratomagico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-204117</guid>
		<description>I think Notorious&#039; students reluctance to claim the identity &quot;feminist&quot; is neither surprising nor even that dismaying. It certainly is clear that the broader cultural image of feminism has been degraded through time, and that younger women are scared off by that. However, it also is true that many younger people are chary of attaching too many labels to themselves. They may claim a few, here and there (gay/straight; vegetarian/vegan/omnivore; Christian/Jew/Buddhist/whatever), but once they take up 2-3 labels, they refuse to adopt any more. Yet, ask them whether they believe in equal pay for equal work, whether women are intellectually equal to men, whether women should have the right to control their bodies, and you will find that they all are &quot;feminists&quot; &lt;i&gt;sans la lettre&lt;/i&gt;. 
When I was younger, we searched for identity, formulated our sense of self, through enthusiastic adoption of multiple labels. Now, young people work out their identities in part by &lt;b&gt;refusing&lt;/b&gt; labels. And, even though I, as a product of my generation, am fully comfortable calling myself a feminist (AND a liberal, AND a freak), I think the growing suspicion of neat prepackaged identities actually is a Very Good Thing. It opens up a more creative field of self-fashioning, a more active and emergent invention of one&#039;s adulthood. Perhaps not everyone takes full advantage of these opportunities, but they are there. 
Ultimately, to me the word matters less than the attitudes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Notorious&#8217; students reluctance to claim the identity &#8220;feminist&#8221; is neither surprising nor even that dismaying. It certainly is clear that the broader cultural image of feminism has been degraded through time, and that younger women are scared off by that. However, it also is true that many younger people are chary of attaching too many labels to themselves. They may claim a few, here and there (gay/straight; vegetarian/vegan/omnivore; Christian/Jew/Buddhist/whatever), but once they take up 2-3 labels, they refuse to adopt any more. Yet, ask them whether they believe in equal pay for equal work, whether women are intellectually equal to men, whether women should have the right to control their bodies, and you will find that they all are &#8220;feminists&#8221; <i>sans la lettre</i>.<br />
When I was younger, we searched for identity, formulated our sense of self, through enthusiastic adoption of multiple labels. Now, young people work out their identities in part by <b>refusing</b> labels. And, even though I, as a product of my generation, am fully comfortable calling myself a feminist (AND a liberal, AND a freak), I think the growing suspicion of neat prepackaged identities actually is a Very Good Thing. It opens up a more creative field of self-fashioning, a more active and emergent invention of one&#8217;s adulthood. Perhaps not everyone takes full advantage of these opportunities, but they are there.<br />
Ultimately, to me the word matters less than the attitudes.</p>
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		<title>By: susurro</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-204016</link>
		<dc:creator>susurro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-204016</guid>
		<description>The politics of claiming feminism and feminist principles is a mixed bag but I do think our rights are expanding in step with the ways they are contracting. The important thing is to keep drawing in, learning and organizing with, young people so that they see our relevance and we see theirs and to make sure that effort is diverse so that we don&#039;t keep losing some of our strongest voices to various oppressions from within.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The politics of claiming feminism and feminist principles is a mixed bag but I do think our rights are expanding in step with the ways they are contracting. The important thing is to keep drawing in, learning and organizing with, young people so that they see our relevance and we see theirs and to make sure that effort is diverse so that we don&#8217;t keep losing some of our strongest voices to various oppressions from within.</p>
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		<title>By: twandx</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-203883</link>
		<dc:creator>twandx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-203883</guid>
		<description>If this does not convince you that the fault lies not in ourselves but in that damn lable - feminist - than nothing will.  

Until we own our all being women, any characterization of us is just as damning to ALL women.  This means waking up more women.  It means the critics of our movement are talking and writing about ALL females.  


That makes them pause as most will have mothers, sisters, wives or daughters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this does not convince you that the fault lies not in ourselves but in that damn lable &#8211; feminist &#8211; than nothing will.  </p>
<p>Until we own our all being women, any characterization of us is just as damning to ALL women.  This means waking up more women.  It means the critics of our movement are talking and writing about ALL females.  </p>
<p>That makes them pause as most will have mothers, sisters, wives or daughters.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-203612</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-203612</guid>
		<description>Loved Bennett&#039;s History Matters.  Disagree with all sorts of things in it (she and I have been arguing some of it on and off for 20 years or so) but still. . . the passion! the politics!  Yea!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved Bennett&#8217;s History Matters.  Disagree with all sorts of things in it (she and I have been arguing some of it on and off for 20 years or so) but still. . . the passion! the politics!  Yea!</p>
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		<title>By: Notorious Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/29/radical-feminism-groundhog-day/comment-page-1/#comment-203508</link>
		<dc:creator>Notorious Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=3256#comment-203508</guid>
		<description>(Clarification: &quot;this&quot; = Bennett&#039;s &lt;i&gt;History Matters&lt;/i&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Clarification: &#8220;this&#8221; = Bennett&#8217;s <i>History Matters</i>)</p>
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