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	<title>Comments on: Campus visit and job talk advice</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: kalamF</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-453407</link>
		<dc:creator>kalamF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-453407</guid>
		<description>Great site - just got turned onto it by one of my students on the market this year. 

Let me second other comments about dress. In my experience it doesn&#039;t matter as long as you stick within a certain range, not too elegant but not shabby. Dress as others in your field do when they give conference papers. The comment about the short skirt reminds me of a sunk candidacy at my own institution. The talk and the rest of the visit were superb but  some of the senior women were outraged. Why take the risk?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great site &#8211; just got turned onto it by one of my students on the market this year. </p>
<p>Let me second other comments about dress. In my experience it doesn&#8217;t matter as long as you stick within a certain range, not too elegant but not shabby. Dress as others in your field do when they give conference papers. The comment about the short skirt reminds me of a sunk candidacy at my own institution. The talk and the rest of the visit were superb but  some of the senior women were outraged. Why take the risk?</p>
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		<title>By: Labor Day 2009: will work for internet connection and library card? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-431841</link>
		<dc:creator>Labor Day 2009: will work for internet connection and library card? : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-431841</guid>
		<description>[...] WOC Ph.D. also had some great advice for academic job seekers:  1) what to expect on a campus visit, 2) how to prepare for and deliver a successful academic job talk, and 3) how to dress for a campus interview.  Unfortunately, these posts are no longer available publicly, but you can see a summary of her advice here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WOC Ph.D. also had some great advice for academic job seekers:  1) what to expect on a campus visit, 2) how to prepare for and deliver a successful academic job talk, and 3) how to dress for a campus interview.  Unfortunately, these posts are no longer available publicly, but you can see a summary of her advice here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: prof bw</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179634</link>
		<dc:creator>prof bw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179634</guid>
		<description>While I agree with a lot of what Buzz said, I do think that pitching to the middle is best (at least in humanities and social sciences) as the audience can be quite large and varied. The experts in the room will ask &quot;expert questions&quot; and that is the time to shine. If you get too technical you will lose the &quot;lay people&quot; in the audience; in my post I included a talk by someone with a highly specialized field in library sciences, while I critiqued her tone and delivery, she does a really good job of bringing in key info and breaking it down in accessible ways. I think that has been one of the most effective strategies I have seen while on SCs (and I do them a lot b/c I fill several quotas).

as for clothes, it always blows me away how much people stress about clothing. But more than that what my colleagues and the internets say about people&#039;s clothing and my own experience mentoring working class students for whom all of this is new, make me more sensitive to the stories of mocking, humiliation, and disqualification that do go on. (But like I say in my tongue-in-cheek posts about the issue, clothes cannot get you a job or, in most cases, prevent you from getting one; and I don&#039;t think most of us care as long as you do well on the job talk.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with a lot of what Buzz said, I do think that pitching to the middle is best (at least in humanities and social sciences) as the audience can be quite large and varied. The experts in the room will ask &#8220;expert questions&#8221; and that is the time to shine. If you get too technical you will lose the &#8220;lay people&#8221; in the audience; in my post I included a talk by someone with a highly specialized field in library sciences, while I critiqued her tone and delivery, she does a really good job of bringing in key info and breaking it down in accessible ways. I think that has been one of the most effective strategies I have seen while on SCs (and I do them a lot b/c I fill several quotas).</p>
<p>as for clothes, it always blows me away how much people stress about clothing. But more than that what my colleagues and the internets say about people&#8217;s clothing and my own experience mentoring working class students for whom all of this is new, make me more sensitive to the stories of mocking, humiliation, and disqualification that do go on. (But like I say in my tongue-in-cheek posts about the issue, clothes cannot get you a job or, in most cases, prevent you from getting one; and I don&#8217;t think most of us care as long as you do well on the job talk.)</p>
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		<title>By: Buzz</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179585</link>
		<dc:creator>Buzz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179585</guid>
		<description>From what I have found, the standards for job talks vary tremendously by field.  I attend a lot of these talks, mostly in the sciences but also in the humanities.  (I am often asked to sit in on the talks by applicants for positions in the history or philosophy of science.)  From what I have seen, the really good talks are about the same quality in every field.  However, the bad talks in the humanities are much, much worse.

I attribute this to the fact that, contrary to what you might expect, people in the sciences get much better training in oral communication.  In physics, we would never consider hiring somebody who hadn&#039;t already given at least a dozen talks at conferences, as colloquia, etc.  On the other hand, I&#039;ve spoken to interviewees in philosophy who haven&#039;t given a single other talk in the last 2-3 years.  And the people with little experience tend to be the ones giving the bad talks.  In other words, the best practice for a job talk is giving other talks.  Indeed, if you have to put your job talk together from scratch, you are already at a disadvantage.  I put together my job talk with material from two earlier talks I done, which covered the same material but at different levels.

And this brings me to one of my points of advice.  Job talks should not be geared either to a general audience or aimed solely at specialists.  Rather, it would be best to include some material at each level.  You want to appeal to interested people in the department, who have enough knowledge that they can understand why your conclusions are important but won&#039;t be able to follow the detailed arguments.  Half or more of the talk should be pitched at them.  However, you should take some time to wow the specialists with the intricacies of your work.  Otherwise, they just have to take your word for it that your results are really as meaningful as you say.

On the subject of graphics, I cannot recommend them strongly enough.  Doing presentations electronically makes it easy to incorporate graphical elements.  I studied design as well as physics, and one crucial principle is that people remember information they are presented with much better if any text is broken up with some graphical elements.  The graphics don&#039;t need to be of any deep significance.  When I talk about high energy astrophysics, I include pretty pictures of nebulae and quasars.  (Historians can substitute photographs or maps of the places they are talking about.)  There is no need to talk about these graphics for more than a sentence each, if they are not particularly informative, but there mere presence will liven up a presentation and make it more memorable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I have found, the standards for job talks vary tremendously by field.  I attend a lot of these talks, mostly in the sciences but also in the humanities.  (I am often asked to sit in on the talks by applicants for positions in the history or philosophy of science.)  From what I have seen, the really good talks are about the same quality in every field.  However, the bad talks in the humanities are much, much worse.</p>
<p>I attribute this to the fact that, contrary to what you might expect, people in the sciences get much better training in oral communication.  In physics, we would never consider hiring somebody who hadn&#8217;t already given at least a dozen talks at conferences, as colloquia, etc.  On the other hand, I&#8217;ve spoken to interviewees in philosophy who haven&#8217;t given a single other talk in the last 2-3 years.  And the people with little experience tend to be the ones giving the bad talks.  In other words, the best practice for a job talk is giving other talks.  Indeed, if you have to put your job talk together from scratch, you are already at a disadvantage.  I put together my job talk with material from two earlier talks I done, which covered the same material but at different levels.</p>
<p>And this brings me to one of my points of advice.  Job talks should not be geared either to a general audience or aimed solely at specialists.  Rather, it would be best to include some material at each level.  You want to appeal to interested people in the department, who have enough knowledge that they can understand why your conclusions are important but won&#8217;t be able to follow the detailed arguments.  Half or more of the talk should be pitched at them.  However, you should take some time to wow the specialists with the intricacies of your work.  Otherwise, they just have to take your word for it that your results are really as meaningful as you say.</p>
<p>On the subject of graphics, I cannot recommend them strongly enough.  Doing presentations electronically makes it easy to incorporate graphical elements.  I studied design as well as physics, and one crucial principle is that people remember information they are presented with much better if any text is broken up with some graphical elements.  The graphics don&#8217;t need to be of any deep significance.  When I talk about high energy astrophysics, I include pretty pictures of nebulae and quasars.  (Historians can substitute photographs or maps of the places they are talking about.)  There is no need to talk about these graphics for more than a sentence each, if they are not particularly informative, but there mere presence will liven up a presentation and make it more memorable.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179485</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179485</guid>
		<description>More good advice, friends.  I heard one story from a friend about a young woman on a campus interview who wore very short skirts and revealing tops.  My friend&#039;s comment was, &quot;did she not realize that she was on a job interview?&quot;  The weird thing (to me) is that the job candidate was from a very staid and proper Ivy with a fantastic record of placing its students.  But then, sometimes the Ivy schools do the least job preparation because they think their students&#039; prestigious affiliations will speak for itself.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More good advice, friends.  I heard one story from a friend about a young woman on a campus interview who wore very short skirts and revealing tops.  My friend&#8217;s comment was, &#8220;did she not realize that she was on a job interview?&#8221;  The weird thing (to me) is that the job candidate was from a very staid and proper Ivy with a fantastic record of placing its students.  But then, sometimes the Ivy schools do the least job preparation because they think their students&#8217; prestigious affiliations will speak for itself.  Wrong, wrong, wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: GayProf</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179417</link>
		<dc:creator>GayProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179417</guid>
		<description>I once saw a candidate dress inappropriately for a job talk in Texas.  Ze wore a rumpled sweater and jeans.  This might have been ignored had ze not also made it abundantly clear that ze considered our unit beneath hir great talents.  That, though, was exceptional and I really think that person had decided they didn&#039;t want that job at all.

I would add to the need of practicing (and practicing a lot) the need to practice in front of people who know nothing about your research or your field.  Your dissertation committee and friends likely know your dissertation project well enough that they will unconsciously fill in gaps in your presentation.  Somebody totally outside your field, however, will have a fresh perspective.  

Finally, if you are interviewing at a university in a small town, don&#039;t, for the love of GayProf, talk about how terrible and boring it was to go to grad school in a small town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once saw a candidate dress inappropriately for a job talk in Texas.  Ze wore a rumpled sweater and jeans.  This might have been ignored had ze not also made it abundantly clear that ze considered our unit beneath hir great talents.  That, though, was exceptional and I really think that person had decided they didn&#8217;t want that job at all.</p>
<p>I would add to the need of practicing (and practicing a lot) the need to practice in front of people who know nothing about your research or your field.  Your dissertation committee and friends likely know your dissertation project well enough that they will unconsciously fill in gaps in your presentation.  Somebody totally outside your field, however, will have a fresh perspective.  </p>
<p>Finally, if you are interviewing at a university in a small town, don&#8217;t, for the love of GayProf, talk about how terrible and boring it was to go to grad school in a small town.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179410</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179410</guid>
		<description>Ruth--your point about clothing not mattering that much is a good one.  I&#039;ve never seen anyone dressed truly inappropriately for a job interview--the clothing has been pretty much the uniform standard, and so I can&#039;t remember anyone being especially well dressed or poorly dressed.  Clothing is not the thing to worry about, if you&#039;ve packed appropriately.  Practice, practice, practice the job talk!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth&#8211;your point about clothing not mattering that much is a good one.  I&#8217;ve never seen anyone dressed truly inappropriately for a job interview&#8211;the clothing has been pretty much the uniform standard, and so I can&#8217;t remember anyone being especially well dressed or poorly dressed.  Clothing is not the thing to worry about, if you&#8217;ve packed appropriately.  Practice, practice, practice the job talk!</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179408</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179408</guid>
		<description>Rad--I think that&#039;s right.  Don&#039;t take it personally if you&#039;re not treated well.  It probably isn&#039;t personal, but rather the result of years of in-fighting.  (Well, it might be personal, but if it is, it&#039;s the sign of a truly and deeply screwed up department!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rad&#8211;I think that&#8217;s right.  Don&#8217;t take it personally if you&#8217;re not treated well.  It probably isn&#8217;t personal, but rather the result of years of in-fighting.  (Well, it might be personal, but if it is, it&#8217;s the sign of a truly and deeply screwed up department!)</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179406</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179406</guid>
		<description>With all the discussions of what people should wear for interviews, I thought I would point out that I have been going to job talks for around 25 years now, at four different institutions (my grad school and three employers) and I only remember what the candidate was wearing in one of them.  The clothes really, obviously, did not fit.  Nevertheless ze gave an impressive talk, got the job, and subsequently got tenure and is a distinguished member of the profession.  The point of which is:  yes, you want to make as good an impression as possible, but really, the wrong shirt is not going to disqualify you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all the discussions of what people should wear for interviews, I thought I would point out that I have been going to job talks for around 25 years now, at four different institutions (my grad school and three employers) and I only remember what the candidate was wearing in one of them.  The clothes really, obviously, did not fit.  Nevertheless ze gave an impressive talk, got the job, and subsequently got tenure and is a distinguished member of the profession.  The point of which is:  yes, you want to make as good an impression as possible, but really, the wrong shirt is not going to disqualify you.</p>
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		<title>By: Rad Readr</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2009/01/09/campus-visit-and-job-talk-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-179076</link>
		<dc:creator>Rad Readr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2888#comment-179076</guid>
		<description>Good post with a lot of helpful advice. 

You could say this about a lot of good places: &quot;Seriously–if you’ve been invited to campus, then the vast, vast majority of people you’ll meet will want you to knock it out of the park.  We want to be impressed and bowled over.&quot; But in some contentious depts. there may already be a fight brewing and someone may be looking to take down the person supporting your candidacy. You shouldn&#039;t worry too much about what&#039;s going on behind the scenes, but also be ready for different types of visits. One of my friends was practically hazed at an Ivy League campus visit, but then when the first two choices turned down the offers, my friend got the job. (And was then bullied for a few years, but that&#039;s another post.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post with a lot of helpful advice. </p>
<p>You could say this about a lot of good places: &#8220;Seriously–if you’ve been invited to campus, then the vast, vast majority of people you’ll meet will want you to knock it out of the park.  We want to be impressed and bowled over.&#8221; But in some contentious depts. there may already be a fight brewing and someone may be looking to take down the person supporting your candidacy. You shouldn&#8217;t worry too much about what&#8217;s going on behind the scenes, but also be ready for different types of visits. One of my friends was practically hazed at an Ivy League campus visit, but then when the first two choices turned down the offers, my friend got the job. (And was then bullied for a few years, but that&#8217;s another post.)</p>
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