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	<title>Comments on: Bad apples, and how they ruin it for the rest of us</title>
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	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: autism epidemic</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-548352</link>
		<dc:creator>autism epidemic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 06:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-548352</guid>
		<description>There is not autism epidemic. Rather, it&#039;s an epidemic of misdiagnosis, mislabeling........research shows investigations and audits are , more and more, revealing that thousands of kids who are diagnosed &#039;autism&quot; in the schools and other public agencies...aren&#039;t really autistic...but the numbers of autistic kids helps schools and other agencies convince the government this is an &quot;epidemic&quot; that requires &quot;more money&quot; more funding, more grants, etc, etc...total scam. con job. As for Jenny Mccarthy she&#039;s a liar. Straight up con artist..she knows that her son wasn&#039;t ever realyy autistic, but she don&#039;t care...it&#039;s all about her....anyone who supports mccartthy will be known as a person who doesn&#039;t know crap about real autism</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is not autism epidemic. Rather, it&#8217;s an epidemic of misdiagnosis, mislabeling&#8230;&#8230;..research shows investigations and audits are , more and more, revealing that thousands of kids who are diagnosed &#8216;autism&#8221; in the schools and other public agencies&#8230;aren&#8217;t really autistic&#8230;but the numbers of autistic kids helps schools and other agencies convince the government this is an &#8220;epidemic&#8221; that requires &#8220;more money&#8221; more funding, more grants, etc, etc&#8230;total scam. con job. As for Jenny Mccarthy she&#8217;s a liar. Straight up con artist..she knows that her son wasn&#8217;t ever realyy autistic, but she don&#8217;t care&#8230;it&#8217;s all about her&#8230;.anyone who supports mccartthy will be known as a person who doesn&#8217;t know crap about real autism</p>
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		<title>By: Book Review - Autism&#8217;s False Prophets &#124; The Global Sociology Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-173759</link>
		<dc:creator>Book Review - Autism&#8217;s False Prophets &#124; The Global Sociology Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-173759</guid>
		<description>[...] want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by Greet Box A while back, Historiann recommended Paul Offit&#8217;s book, Autism False Prophets - Bad Science, Risky Medicine and The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on this topic.Powered by Greet Box A while back, Historiann recommended Paul Offit&#8217;s book, Autism False Prophets &#8211; Bad Science, Risky Medicine and The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Raye Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-169988</link>
		<dc:creator>Raye Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-169988</guid>
		<description>Like Janice I really resent the anti-vax people. When my sons, now aged 12 and 9, were infants, the polemics about vaccines were at a fever pitch. Seems to me I recall a U.S. Senator getting in on the argument re:thimerosol. I was scared to death, in that way that you can get neurotic with all the responsibility that attends having a small child. Nevertheless, I vaccinated because I believe in it very strongly.

As it all turned out, both my sons are autistic. I was v. relieved to learn that it couldn&#039;t have been the MMR. It seems likely that we&#039;ve got genetic predisposition in our family, on both sides.  I think it&#039;s also likely that one day a better understanding of possible contributary factors will help explain the evident boom in cases. I mean, like many people, I had no clue about autism when I was in my youth (1970&#039;s) and now it&#039;s all over the place. I personally notice what looks like a cluster among my cohort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Janice I really resent the anti-vax people. When my sons, now aged 12 and 9, were infants, the polemics about vaccines were at a fever pitch. Seems to me I recall a U.S. Senator getting in on the argument re:thimerosol. I was scared to death, in that way that you can get neurotic with all the responsibility that attends having a small child. Nevertheless, I vaccinated because I believe in it very strongly.</p>
<p>As it all turned out, both my sons are autistic. I was v. relieved to learn that it couldn&#8217;t have been the MMR. It seems likely that we&#8217;ve got genetic predisposition in our family, on both sides.  I think it&#8217;s also likely that one day a better understanding of possible contributary factors will help explain the evident boom in cases. I mean, like many people, I had no clue about autism when I was in my youth (1970&#8217;s) and now it&#8217;s all over the place. I personally notice what looks like a cluster among my cohort.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanie Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-168649</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanie Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-168649</guid>
		<description>TAL did show his name and affiliation, which was Will Felps (currently a professor at Rotterdam School of Management in the Netherlands).  By running a Google Search under his name and Bad Apple, I was able to pull up a reference to the book on Google books, see the link below: http://books.google.com/books?id=RKkxJnn73UoC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=%22will+felps%22+%2B+bad+apple&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yry0-DQDv7&amp;sig=kP8FoRY-KSSg0U4VHn_Dl4va9Y8&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=2&amp;ct=result</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TAL did show his name and affiliation, which was Will Felps (currently a professor at Rotterdam School of Management in the Netherlands).  By running a Google Search under his name and Bad Apple, I was able to pull up a reference to the book on Google books, see the link below: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=RKkxJnn73UoC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=%22will+felps%22+%2B+bad+apple&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yry0-DQDv7&amp;sig=kP8FoRY-KSSg0U4VHn_Dl4va9Y8&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=2&amp;ct=result" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=RKkxJnn73UoC&amp;pg=PA175&amp;lpg=PA175&amp;dq=%22will+felps%22+%2B+bad+apple&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yry0-DQDv7&amp;sig=kP8FoRY-KSSg0U4VHn_Dl4va9Y8&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;resnum=2&amp;ct=result</a></p>
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		<title>By: rhahnen</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-163091</link>
		<dc:creator>rhahnen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-163091</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the school references.  I never had a problem while teaching college, but now that I’m in a high school environment, the “Bad Apple Effect” is glaring. One bad apple can usually be neutralized through positive attention, humor or quick dismissal.  A collogue has a class with at least five or six very bad apples. It’s a nightmare. The sad part is that the good apples are learning nothing and will most likely fail the class along with the bad apples.  Does anyone know of educational research in this area?  Dr. Felps is real: Dr. Will Felps http://www.rsm.nl/home/faculty/academic_departments/organisation_and_personnel_management/faculty/faculty/felps</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the school references.  I never had a problem while teaching college, but now that I’m in a high school environment, the “Bad Apple Effect” is glaring. One bad apple can usually be neutralized through positive attention, humor or quick dismissal.  A collogue has a class with at least five or six very bad apples. It’s a nightmare. The sad part is that the good apples are learning nothing and will most likely fail the class along with the bad apples.  Does anyone know of educational research in this area?  Dr. Felps is real: Dr. Will Felps <a href="http://www.rsm.nl/home/faculty/academic_departments/organisation_and_personnel_management/faculty/faculty/felps" rel="nofollow">http://www.rsm.nl/home/faculty/academic_departments/organisation_and_personnel_management/faculty/faculty/felps</a></p>
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		<title>By: Penny</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-158273</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-158273</guid>
		<description>@Erica--that&#039;s certainly a possibility--we&#039;ll probably never know if it was a genuine exposure or not.  The standard protocol (which we followed) was nine months of prophylactic antibiotics, and chest x-rays instead of the skin test for the rest of her life.  She had to enroll in kindergarten during those nine months--so I had to explain to the school nurse why she was taking anti-TB meds... ;)

&quot;Erica is correct: pro-vaccination does not mean hostility to people who can’t be vaccinated.&quot;

Agreed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Erica&#8211;that&#8217;s certainly a possibility&#8211;we&#8217;ll probably never know if it was a genuine exposure or not.  The standard protocol (which we followed) was nine months of prophylactic antibiotics, and chest x-rays instead of the skin test for the rest of her life.  She had to enroll in kindergarten during those nine months&#8211;so I had to explain to the school nurse why she was taking anti-TB meds&#8230; <img src='http://www.historiann.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8220;Erica is correct: pro-vaccination does not mean hostility to people who can’t be vaccinated.&#8221;</p>
<p>Agreed!</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-157978</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-157978</guid>
		<description>quixote--great suggestion--the silent treatment is a low-key way to make your point about disruptive behavior in class.  

Erica is correct:  pro-vaccination does not mean hostility to people who can&#039;t be vaccinated.  In fact, it&#039;s only everyone else&#039;s vaccinations that keeps them safe.  Given that there are people who either can&#039;t be vaccinated or whose immunity is otherwise compromised, refusing to vaccinate healthy children risks their health and safety especially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quixote&#8211;great suggestion&#8211;the silent treatment is a low-key way to make your point about disruptive behavior in class.  </p>
<p>Erica is correct:  pro-vaccination does not mean hostility to people who can&#8217;t be vaccinated.  In fact, it&#8217;s only everyone else&#8217;s vaccinations that keeps them safe.  Given that there are people who either can&#8217;t be vaccinated or whose immunity is otherwise compromised, refusing to vaccinate healthy children risks their health and safety especially.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-157795</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-157795</guid>
		<description>@Penny -- I tested positive for TB from the first tine test I ever took until I went off to college. Never had tuberculosis, and was never in any high risk region or situation... apparently there are some people who are simply allergic to whatever proteins they use in the test, and so the little bumps were always irritated.

@nhokkanen -- There are many, many environmental factors which can contribute to high mercury levels. Living near a coal-fired power plant, for example, raised my mercury levels. Numerous species of fish have extremely high mercury levels, including the commonly-eaten tuna. Drinking water has mercury.

I also am curious about: &quot;... thimerosal at 20 parts per billion damages dendritic cells. The EPA drinking water limit for mercury is 4 ppb; most injected flu shots contain 50,000 ppb.&quot; Once that flu shot is injected into and dispersed throughout a human body, what is the PPB concentration? I don&#039;t know the volume of a flu shot, nor the volume of a person, or I&#039;d do the math. Without that math, we are simply comparing apples to oranges. (A logically comparable statement: I have 250,000 PPM people in my household. Odds of winning the lottery are 0.2 PPM. What conclusions can we draw specifically from those numbers about whether I am a millionaire?)

Of course vaccine injuries occur. The risks are spelled out on the handy information sheets from my child&#039;s doctor each time he/she gets a shot. But keep the discussion fact-based, rather than drawing speculative conclusions. And please don&#039;t imply that a pro-vaccination viewpoint results in callous disregard for people who can&#039;t be vaccinated or people who have had negative reactions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Penny &#8212; I tested positive for TB from the first tine test I ever took until I went off to college. Never had tuberculosis, and was never in any high risk region or situation&#8230; apparently there are some people who are simply allergic to whatever proteins they use in the test, and so the little bumps were always irritated.</p>
<p>@nhokkanen &#8212; There are many, many environmental factors which can contribute to high mercury levels. Living near a coal-fired power plant, for example, raised my mercury levels. Numerous species of fish have extremely high mercury levels, including the commonly-eaten tuna. Drinking water has mercury.</p>
<p>I also am curious about: &#8220;&#8230; thimerosal at 20 parts per billion damages dendritic cells. The EPA drinking water limit for mercury is 4 ppb; most injected flu shots contain 50,000 ppb.&#8221; Once that flu shot is injected into and dispersed throughout a human body, what is the PPB concentration? I don&#8217;t know the volume of a flu shot, nor the volume of a person, or I&#8217;d do the math. Without that math, we are simply comparing apples to oranges. (A logically comparable statement: I have 250,000 PPM people in my household. Odds of winning the lottery are 0.2 PPM. What conclusions can we draw specifically from those numbers about whether I am a millionaire?)</p>
<p>Of course vaccine injuries occur. The risks are spelled out on the handy information sheets from my child&#8217;s doctor each time he/she gets a shot. But keep the discussion fact-based, rather than drawing speculative conclusions. And please don&#8217;t imply that a pro-vaccination viewpoint results in callous disregard for people who can&#8217;t be vaccinated or people who have had negative reactions.</p>
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		<title>By: quixote</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-157727</link>
		<dc:creator>quixote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-157727</guid>
		<description>Historiann, I wasn&#039;t trying to imply that ignorance the main problem.  If only!  But still, small initial ignorance can contribute, and sometimes it can even be a catalyst for more massive stupidity.

I&#039;ll jump in on the steering-classes discussion.  (I&#039;ve taught for decades, and I can&#039;t resist.)  I agree that the first thing to try is a private word, but if that doesn&#039;t have the desired effect then I found the following can work surprisingly well.  When you notice the untoward behavior, stop speaking or whatever you&#039;re doing and look at the student.  That&#039;s all.  Pretty soon everybody&#039;s looking at the student who rapidly gets hugely embarrassed.  It&#039;s also very rare that they don&#039;t know exactly why it&#039;s happening, and, at least in my experience, the behavior never happens in your classes again.  (If they honestly don&#039;t get it, then try a second private word.)  Once the student stops the offensive behavior, carry on with whatever you were doing before.  As I say, it&#039;s worked like a charm for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Historiann, I wasn&#8217;t trying to imply that ignorance the main problem.  If only!  But still, small initial ignorance can contribute, and sometimes it can even be a catalyst for more massive stupidity.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll jump in on the steering-classes discussion.  (I&#8217;ve taught for decades, and I can&#8217;t resist.)  I agree that the first thing to try is a private word, but if that doesn&#8217;t have the desired effect then I found the following can work surprisingly well.  When you notice the untoward behavior, stop speaking or whatever you&#8217;re doing and look at the student.  That&#8217;s all.  Pretty soon everybody&#8217;s looking at the student who rapidly gets hugely embarrassed.  It&#8217;s also very rare that they don&#8217;t know exactly why it&#8217;s happening, and, at least in my experience, the behavior never happens in your classes again.  (If they honestly don&#8217;t get it, then try a second private word.)  Once the student stops the offensive behavior, carry on with whatever you were doing before.  As I say, it&#8217;s worked like a charm for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Fratguy</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/12/21/bad-apples-and-how-they-ruin-it-for-the-rest-of-us/comment-page-1/#comment-157723</link>
		<dc:creator>Fratguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=2440#comment-157723</guid>
		<description>nhokkanen,

1. Federal Omnibus Autism Proceedings.  The courts are a terrible place to referee accademic and scientific matters.  Just because you have a seat at the plaintifs table does not make your arguements a scientific equivalent.

2. Mitochondrial disorders are inheirited. They are not aquired. Only in the Hannah Poling case, where a preexisting mitochondrial condition was exacerbated by vaccinations, have vaccinations been implicated in a court of law (again not a great place to ejudicate scientific hypothesis) to be responsible for mental retardation.  Mitochondeial disorders themselves are very rare and tend to present with seizures, mental retardation and recurrent bouts of dangerous buildup of acid the blood, all without vaccinations.

3.  People with egg allergies are generally no longer excluded from routine MMR or flu vaccinations (the 2 most common egg cultured vaccinations)

4. The EPA limits on mercury are so much lower than the concentrations that USED to be found in vaccinations because people tend to consume much much much much more water than vaccinations over the course of their lives.  2 cc of vaccinations 4 times in the first year of life vs 100 cc/kg/day of water minimum necessary consumption for infants.

5. Vaccinations, with the exception of multiple dose Flu vaccines no longer contain thimerisol.  The decision to remove thimerisol from vaccines was made after 2-3 weeks of deliberations despite absolutely no demonstration of harm.  Removing unnecessary additives to vaccines is cool, but unfortunately this has been interprted as an admission of danger on the part of the AAP, CDC ACIP etc (see folowing)

6. Maybe vaccinations and/or thimerisol don&#039;t cause autism, MMR administration long predates the rise in autism cases.  Plenty of money and energy has been wasted on &quot;proving&quot; the association of MMR and autism.  The natural experiment of removing thimerisol from vaccinations has not resulted in a decrease in autism cases.  Epidemiology of real kids trumps any number of damaged dendrites in a petri dish.

I&#039;m all for safer vaccines.  Vaccines are actively monitored for possible adverse effects.  The first rotavirus (50 deaths a year US, &gt;100 K developing world) vaccination was pulled off the market (at no small cost) 6-9 months after introduction due to a demonstrated increased risk of bowel obstruction. Risk was on the order of 1 case for every 5000 to 10,000 infants that were vaccinated.  If MMR or thimerisol or a combination of genetic succeptiblity and vaccines and/or thimerisol are reponsible for a 1: 150 incidence of autism, the association would be readily demonstrable.  It is high time that the line of inquiry be redirected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nhokkanen,</p>
<p>1. Federal Omnibus Autism Proceedings.  The courts are a terrible place to referee accademic and scientific matters.  Just because you have a seat at the plaintifs table does not make your arguements a scientific equivalent.</p>
<p>2. Mitochondrial disorders are inheirited. They are not aquired. Only in the Hannah Poling case, where a preexisting mitochondrial condition was exacerbated by vaccinations, have vaccinations been implicated in a court of law (again not a great place to ejudicate scientific hypothesis) to be responsible for mental retardation.  Mitochondeial disorders themselves are very rare and tend to present with seizures, mental retardation and recurrent bouts of dangerous buildup of acid the blood, all without vaccinations.</p>
<p>3.  People with egg allergies are generally no longer excluded from routine MMR or flu vaccinations (the 2 most common egg cultured vaccinations)</p>
<p>4. The EPA limits on mercury are so much lower than the concentrations that USED to be found in vaccinations because people tend to consume much much much much more water than vaccinations over the course of their lives.  2 cc of vaccinations 4 times in the first year of life vs 100 cc/kg/day of water minimum necessary consumption for infants.</p>
<p>5. Vaccinations, with the exception of multiple dose Flu vaccines no longer contain thimerisol.  The decision to remove thimerisol from vaccines was made after 2-3 weeks of deliberations despite absolutely no demonstration of harm.  Removing unnecessary additives to vaccines is cool, but unfortunately this has been interprted as an admission of danger on the part of the AAP, CDC ACIP etc (see folowing)</p>
<p>6. Maybe vaccinations and/or thimerisol don&#8217;t cause autism, MMR administration long predates the rise in autism cases.  Plenty of money and energy has been wasted on &#8220;proving&#8221; the association of MMR and autism.  The natural experiment of removing thimerisol from vaccinations has not resulted in a decrease in autism cases.  Epidemiology of real kids trumps any number of damaged dendrites in a petri dish.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for safer vaccines.  Vaccines are actively monitored for possible adverse effects.  The first rotavirus (50 deaths a year US, &gt;100 K developing world) vaccination was pulled off the market (at no small cost) 6-9 months after introduction due to a demonstrated increased risk of bowel obstruction. Risk was on the order of 1 case for every 5000 to 10,000 infants that were vaccinated.  If MMR or thimerisol or a combination of genetic succeptiblity and vaccines and/or thimerisol are reponsible for a 1: 150 incidence of autism, the association would be readily demonstrable.  It is high time that the line of inquiry be redirected.</p>
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