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	<title>Comments on: Gender, sexuality, and commenters on feminist blogs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: The trolls under the bridge : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-308411</link>
		<dc:creator>The trolls under the bridge : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 14:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-308411</guid>
		<description>[...] solely of arguing patronizingly with feminist women commenters and bloggers, oddly enough.  As I have written before, it all has to do with boundaries:  one of the symptoms of unexamined male privilege is refusing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] solely of arguing patronizingly with feminist women commenters and bloggers, oddly enough.  As I have written before, it all has to do with boundaries:  one of the symptoms of unexamined male privilege is refusing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Little Berks blogger meetup round-up (yee-haw?) : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-94629</link>
		<dc:creator>Little Berks blogger meetup round-up (yee-haw?) : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-94629</guid>
		<description>[...] that your return was delayed in Yonkers.  Ouch!)  I&#8217;ve already shared my thoughts about feminist bloggers attracting surprisingly creepy, persistent, and disturbed trolls&#8211;let us in on your secrets!  (Secret recipes for troll repellent, that is.  How about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that your return was delayed in Yonkers.  Ouch!)  I&#8217;ve already shared my thoughts about feminist bloggers attracting surprisingly creepy, persistent, and disturbed trolls&#8211;let us in on your secrets!  (Secret recipes for troll repellent, that is.  How about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-47367</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 00:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-47367</guid>
		<description>Suzie--you can just point out that they&#039;re not actually progressive, if they have problems with women whose opinions differ from theirs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suzie&#8211;you can just point out that they&#8217;re not actually progressive, if they have problems with women whose opinions differ from theirs!</p>
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		<title>By: Suzie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-47351</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-47351</guid>
		<description>Thanks for mentioning the discussion at Echidne&#039;s site. As a fairly new blogger, I sometimes get frustrated and alienated by the progressive men who tell me I&#039;m wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for mentioning the discussion at Echidne&#8217;s site. As a fairly new blogger, I sometimes get frustrated and alienated by the progressive men who tell me I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Monday Morning Roundup: troll patrol edition : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44585</link>
		<dc:creator>Monday Morning Roundup: troll patrol edition : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-44585</guid>
		<description>[...] will prove once and for all that women face no barriers to careers in science!  Kinda like the little troll infestation at this blog, when I posted on the problem of antifeminist commenters on women&#8217;s blogs.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will prove once and for all that women face no barriers to careers in science!  Kinda like the little troll infestation at this blog, when I posted on the problem of antifeminist commenters on women&#8217;s blogs.  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44565</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-44565</guid>
		<description>And, I should add:  not preferring Clinton is not and was never interpreted here as evidence of misogyny.  There were plenty of policy and political reasons not to support Clinton, and/or to support the candidacy of her opponent/s.  However, those reasons were subordinated to discussions of her voice, her hair, her clothing, her cleavage, and/or her husband very often.  Most of us were just disgusted by the obviously unequal treatment she and her campaign received.  I think the reason for the PUMA movement, which I&#039;m not a part of, is the reasonable perception that it wasn&#039;t a fair fight, especially with so many Clinton voters&#039; preferences being denied or erased by the DNC in May (FL and MI) on top of the incredible media bias that Clinton was subjected to.  That&#039;s my analysis, anyway--not a defense of PUMA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, I should add:  not preferring Clinton is not and was never interpreted here as evidence of misogyny.  There were plenty of policy and political reasons not to support Clinton, and/or to support the candidacy of her opponent/s.  However, those reasons were subordinated to discussions of her voice, her hair, her clothing, her cleavage, and/or her husband very often.  Most of us were just disgusted by the obviously unequal treatment she and her campaign received.  I think the reason for the PUMA movement, which I&#8217;m not a part of, is the reasonable perception that it wasn&#8217;t a fair fight, especially with so many Clinton voters&#8217; preferences being denied or erased by the DNC in May (FL and MI) on top of the incredible media bias that Clinton was subjected to.  That&#8217;s my analysis, anyway&#8211;not a defense of PUMA.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44554</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-44554</guid>
		<description>Hi Steeveboy--thanks for your comment, and your reconsideration of this blog.  When I suggested that you may have a problem with women bloggers, that was because you left a pretty harsh comment that didn&#039;t reflect that you had read much of this blog and then just went away, so it just seemed like you were a nasty drive-by.  I don&#039;t get a lot of those, but I get enough to see the pattern described above.  

In the anti-Obamasphere and the skeptical-of-Obamasphere, it&#039;s not just women bloggers who have made the claims you list above.  Lots of men have made those claims, too, and lots of Democratic men still would prefer Clinton as the nominee.  I think the reason you saw many women bloggers gravitate to Clinton, or write sympathetically about the beating she was taking from the media, is because of the obvious, rampant, pathological misogyny that her campaign revealed.  And for feminist bloggers, that&#039;s an issue whose history and importance goes way beyond one election campaign!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steeveboy&#8211;thanks for your comment, and your reconsideration of this blog.  When I suggested that you may have a problem with women bloggers, that was because you left a pretty harsh comment that didn&#8217;t reflect that you had read much of this blog and then just went away, so it just seemed like you were a nasty drive-by.  I don&#8217;t get a lot of those, but I get enough to see the pattern described above.  </p>
<p>In the anti-Obamasphere and the skeptical-of-Obamasphere, it&#8217;s not just women bloggers who have made the claims you list above.  Lots of men have made those claims, too, and lots of Democratic men still would prefer Clinton as the nominee.  I think the reason you saw many women bloggers gravitate to Clinton, or write sympathetically about the beating she was taking from the media, is because of the obvious, rampant, pathological misogyny that her campaign revealed.  And for feminist bloggers, that&#8217;s an issue whose history and importance goes way beyond one election campaign!</p>
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		<title>By: steveeboy</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44536</link>
		<dc:creator>steveeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 12:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-44536</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that this pretty much sums up where I come from on blog comments:

&quot;women perhaps [see] their blogs as their living rooms or salons where they have conversations with like-minded people, whereas men may see it as more of a space for Mortal Kombat-type debates.&quot;

suburban guerilla set me straight that she thought it was more like the living room situation, I told her I thought it was more like a bar room where I would argue politics in exactly the same way.  
--and I know I blew it when I lumped in historian with some of the more extreme kooks at no quarter and confluence without actually taking the time to figure out that there was a more serious discussion of issues and an academic focus here.

I believe you asserted at one point that I just had a problem with women bloggers--which I thought was bunk, but since I didn&#039;t want to write some dumb ass cliche I just dropped it--and of course, I couldn&#039;t respond because the blog in question would not permit me to...


It does seem as though the obama-clinton split led to a lot of angst and unpleasantness, but I find that the level of bullshit currently being leveled at obama from some quarters is totally out of hand and far beyond the slights--real and imagined--that were leveled at clinton.

I have seen some female bloggers and commenters do the following:

refer to the russert debate as a &quot;wilding&quot; because hillary clinton got unpleasant questions about her policy views on illegal immigrants and driver&#039;s licenses.  

claim that a candidate scratching his face was really him another candidate the finger.  

claim a WNBA fight in which a male coach broke up the fight as he would in an NBA game was evidence of  obama&#039;s misogyny since he himself liked to play basketball.

that seems to be a bit much--in my mind.

But, all of the above discussion is a helpful reminder to make sure one&#039;s register always matches the level of discourse of the blog in question and to not just lump all together on the basis of something stupid like a particular candidate preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that this pretty much sums up where I come from on blog comments:</p>
<p>&#8220;women perhaps [see] their blogs as their living rooms or salons where they have conversations with like-minded people, whereas men may see it as more of a space for Mortal Kombat-type debates.&#8221;</p>
<p>suburban guerilla set me straight that she thought it was more like the living room situation, I told her I thought it was more like a bar room where I would argue politics in exactly the same way.<br />
&#8211;and I know I blew it when I lumped in historian with some of the more extreme kooks at no quarter and confluence without actually taking the time to figure out that there was a more serious discussion of issues and an academic focus here.</p>
<p>I believe you asserted at one point that I just had a problem with women bloggers&#8211;which I thought was bunk, but since I didn&#8217;t want to write some dumb ass cliche I just dropped it&#8211;and of course, I couldn&#8217;t respond because the blog in question would not permit me to&#8230;</p>
<p>It does seem as though the obama-clinton split led to a lot of angst and unpleasantness, but I find that the level of bullshit currently being leveled at obama from some quarters is totally out of hand and far beyond the slights&#8211;real and imagined&#8211;that were leveled at clinton.</p>
<p>I have seen some female bloggers and commenters do the following:</p>
<p>refer to the russert debate as a &#8220;wilding&#8221; because hillary clinton got unpleasant questions about her policy views on illegal immigrants and driver&#8217;s licenses.  </p>
<p>claim that a candidate scratching his face was really him another candidate the finger.  </p>
<p>claim a WNBA fight in which a male coach broke up the fight as he would in an NBA game was evidence of  obama&#8217;s misogyny since he himself liked to play basketball.</p>
<p>that seems to be a bit much&#8211;in my mind.</p>
<p>But, all of the above discussion is a helpful reminder to make sure one&#8217;s register always matches the level of discourse of the blog in question and to not just lump all together on the basis of something stupid like a particular candidate preference.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44004</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-44004</guid>
		<description>Hi again, &quot;James Brettle!&quot;  (Gavin--please note:  &quot;James&quot; and &quot;Leslie&quot; have the same IP address!  What a coincidence.  BTW, James/Leslie, effective sock puppetry involves more than just different names and fake e-mail addresses!  Why not just pop down to your local library to get a different IP address on your posts!)

I&#039;m not about censorship--please note, I am not the state, and this is not a government blog.  I&#039;m about preserving safe spaces for likeminded people to talk about what they want to talk about.  My blog is a salon, and all are welcome to join in so long as they stay on topic and refrain from insulting one another and using bad language.  This is my blog, and as in a classroom, I get to set the rules.  I have no intention of letting hostile strangers abuse me or my commenters or jack my threads.

I also don&#039;t understand why people who aren&#039;t wanted and whose contributions aren&#039;t appreciated would keep coming around.  The great thing about the non peer-reviewed internets is that you can find likeminded people if you really want to--so find blogs where your comments are appreciated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again, &#8220;James Brettle!&#8221;  (Gavin&#8211;please note:  &#8220;James&#8221; and &#8220;Leslie&#8221; have the same IP address!  What a coincidence.  BTW, James/Leslie, effective sock puppetry involves more than just different names and fake e-mail addresses!  Why not just pop down to your local library to get a different IP address on your posts!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not about censorship&#8211;please note, I am not the state, and this is not a government blog.  I&#8217;m about preserving safe spaces for likeminded people to talk about what they want to talk about.  My blog is a salon, and all are welcome to join in so long as they stay on topic and refrain from insulting one another and using bad language.  This is my blog, and as in a classroom, I get to set the rules.  I have no intention of letting hostile strangers abuse me or my commenters or jack my threads.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t understand why people who aren&#8217;t wanted and whose contributions aren&#8217;t appreciated would keep coming around.  The great thing about the non peer-reviewed internets is that you can find likeminded people if you really want to&#8211;so find blogs where your comments are appreciated!</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/07/22/gender-sexuality-and-commenters-on-feminist-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-43800</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=450#comment-43800</guid>
		<description>If you believe in cyberspace as an arena for free speech and debate on all issues, it is wrong to preclude discussions on topics you think are &quot;inappropriate&quot;. Facing up to the claims made by those we disagree with is a key element in the processes of debate. You and Gavin Robinson of &quot;sockpuppet and troll&quot; fame should reflect on what Milton said in Areopagitica.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you believe in cyberspace as an arena for free speech and debate on all issues, it is wrong to preclude discussions on topics you think are &#8220;inappropriate&#8221;. Facing up to the claims made by those we disagree with is a key element in the processes of debate. You and Gavin Robinson of &#8220;sockpuppet and troll&#8221; fame should reflect on what Milton said in Areopagitica.</p>
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