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	<title>Comments on: Don&#8217;t sue&#8211;run for your lives!  (Part II)</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Department of Corrections : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-79841</link>
		<dc:creator>Department of Corrections : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-79841</guid>
		<description>[...] I was mistaken on the facts about my major antagonist&#8217;s career.  I had written on my blog in this post that, [m]y major foe at my former university was someone who was tenured but simultaneously (and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I was mistaken on the facts about my major antagonist&#8217;s career.  I had written on my blog in this post that, [m]y major foe at my former university was someone who was tenured but simultaneously (and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-50584</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-50584</guid>
		<description>Kelly, you really must run, and run away fast and NOW.  I&#039;m so sorry that you&#039;re being treated that way, but if they don&#039;t appreciate your work or encourage you, you risk damage to your physical and mental health.  Drop out and work for a while, or find another university to finish you degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kelly, you really must run, and run away fast and NOW.  I&#8217;m so sorry that you&#8217;re being treated that way, but if they don&#8217;t appreciate your work or encourage you, you risk damage to your physical and mental health.  Drop out and work for a while, or find another university to finish you degree.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-50582</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-50582</guid>
		<description>I have worked really hard to get into honors year at the University of Canterbury and I just treated like shit on a daily basis. Most days I just want to die because nothing I do works. They say &quot;suck it up, ignore them etc etc,&quot; but it just doesn&#039;t work. Even the ex academic women exam supervisors are bullies. I will never forget a particular experience this year where I was shouted at, and told that I was stupid, it cut me to the bone and I just spent the first half an hour of the exam in a daze. I hate that place, everyday it just makes me sick. I want to get my honors but I reckon that they will do anything to break me. They would rejoice if they learnt that I was found dead with deep wounds on my wrists. Then &quot;she&#039;ll be right, mate,&quot; as the popular New Zealand saying goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked really hard to get into honors year at the University of Canterbury and I just treated like shit on a daily basis. Most days I just want to die because nothing I do works. They say &#8220;suck it up, ignore them etc etc,&#8221; but it just doesn&#8217;t work. Even the ex academic women exam supervisors are bullies. I will never forget a particular experience this year where I was shouted at, and told that I was stupid, it cut me to the bone and I just spent the first half an hour of the exam in a daze. I hate that place, everyday it just makes me sick. I want to get my honors but I reckon that they will do anything to break me. They would rejoice if they learnt that I was found dead with deep wounds on my wrists. Then &#8220;she&#8217;ll be right, mate,&#8221; as the popular New Zealand saying goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre-Joseph Proudhon</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-49674</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre-Joseph Proudhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 10:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-49674</guid>
		<description>Some of us sadly do not have the option to leave but we are made to leave through penalties, and disciplinary procedures that are unjust. We then suffer depression, PTSD and other conditions... Sometimes, by the time you are bullied it is too late...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of us sadly do not have the option to leave but we are made to leave through penalties, and disciplinary procedures that are unjust. We then suffer depression, PTSD and other conditions&#8230; Sometimes, by the time you are bullied it is too late&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-34755</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-34755</guid>
		<description>Hi Rose!  Thanks for stopping by and commenting.  I think you&#039;re right:  giving up tenure in a bad department is the only rational response to an abusive work environment, in the way that divorce is the only rational response to an abusive marriage.  You can get married/tenured again if that&#039;s what you want, so it&#039;s stupid to fetishize the status at the risk of your health and happiness.  In cases like yours, you really have to question the value of tenure:  what exactly was it doing for you in your former job?

Hope all is well with you and your spouse in your new positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rose!  Thanks for stopping by and commenting.  I think you&#8217;re right:  giving up tenure in a bad department is the only rational response to an abusive work environment, in the way that divorce is the only rational response to an abusive marriage.  You can get married/tenured again if that&#8217;s what you want, so it&#8217;s stupid to fetishize the status at the risk of your health and happiness.  In cases like yours, you really have to question the value of tenure:  what exactly was it doing for you in your former job?</p>
<p>Hope all is well with you and your spouse in your new positions.</p>
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		<title>By: Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-34520</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-34520</guid>
		<description>Having just left tenured positions for untenured (and, in my husband&#039;s  case, non-tenure track) positions at another university, we&#039;ve heard our share of &quot;How the hell could you do that?&quot; sorts of comments.  And yeah, it&#039;s been a difficult transition in some ways.  But I think that tenure is an idol faculty need to stop worshiping, at least in the &quot;better tenured than dead&quot; sense that many people have.  Tenure is only liberating if you&#039;re somewhere you can imagine being happy and productive for the rest of your career.  When you&#039;re in a self-destructive department, tenure might as well be a cat o&#039; nine tails to whip yourself with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having just left tenured positions for untenured (and, in my husband&#8217;s  case, non-tenure track) positions at another university, we&#8217;ve heard our share of &#8220;How the hell could you do that?&#8221; sorts of comments.  And yeah, it&#8217;s been a difficult transition in some ways.  But I think that tenure is an idol faculty need to stop worshiping, at least in the &#8220;better tenured than dead&#8221; sense that many people have.  Tenure is only liberating if you&#8217;re somewhere you can imagine being happy and productive for the rest of your career.  When you&#8217;re in a self-destructive department, tenure might as well be a cat o&#8217; nine tails to whip yourself with.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-30553</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-30553</guid>
		<description>Hi myiq--thanks for stopping by to comment.  Interesting observation about the money--I guess people think it&#039;s the only legitimate reason to quit a job, and that if you resign a position, it had better be for more money or people will think you&#039;re an idiot.  But as you suggest:  mental health and happiness may be worth more than gold!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi myiq&#8211;thanks for stopping by to comment.  Interesting observation about the money&#8211;I guess people think it&#8217;s the only legitimate reason to quit a job, and that if you resign a position, it had better be for more money or people will think you&#8217;re an idiot.  But as you suggest:  mental health and happiness may be worth more than gold!</p>
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		<title>By: myiq2xu</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-30464</link>
		<dc:creator>myiq2xu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-30464</guid>
		<description>I recall a study written years ago that showed that most people who are changing jobs cite &quot;higher pay&quot; as the reason, but many of them are lying because the new jobs pay the same or even less.

Better working conditions, including escaping a &quot;hostile work environment&quot; is often the real reason.

I&#039;ve worked jobs I hated even though the pay was good.  The way I was treated made the pay insufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall a study written years ago that showed that most people who are changing jobs cite &#8220;higher pay&#8221; as the reason, but many of them are lying because the new jobs pay the same or even less.</p>
<p>Better working conditions, including escaping a &#8220;hostile work environment&#8221; is often the real reason.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve worked jobs I hated even though the pay was good.  The way I was treated made the pay insufficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-30291</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-30291</guid>
		<description>Hi SF--I think you&#039;re right about there being no good answer to the &quot;million dollar question,&quot; at least when the proportion of bullies reaches a tipping point:  your only option is to stay and get sicker (or get co-opted), or to leave.  Direct confrontation plus a supportive Chair or Dean might be effective if you&#039;re dealing with one or two jerks in a much larger unit.  But your unit in the honors program was (as I recall) only 4 people, with your bully the Director, you, and two others.  That&#039;s a high percentage of bullies, even if there was only one (although the other 2 were enablers who were happy that they weren&#039;t the ones targeted.)

Good point about HR, too.  They represent the interests of the institution, not the interests of workers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi SF&#8211;I think you&#8217;re right about there being no good answer to the &#8220;million dollar question,&#8221; at least when the proportion of bullies reaches a tipping point:  your only option is to stay and get sicker (or get co-opted), or to leave.  Direct confrontation plus a supportive Chair or Dean might be effective if you&#8217;re dealing with one or two jerks in a much larger unit.  But your unit in the honors program was (as I recall) only 4 people, with your bully the Director, you, and two others.  That&#8217;s a high percentage of bullies, even if there was only one (although the other 2 were enablers who were happy that they weren&#8217;t the ones targeted.)</p>
<p>Good point about HR, too.  They represent the interests of the institution, not the interests of workers.</p>
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		<title>By: SF</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/25/dont-sue-run-for-your-lives-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-30282</link>
		<dc:creator>SF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=405#comment-30282</guid>
		<description>Well, I hate to be a spoiler. Based on my experience and the extensive research I&#039;ve done, there is no way out and there is no solution. You either leave or become very ill, and perhaps suicidal. I tried direct confrontation--a memo and a conversation--and was bullied into writing a conciliatory email stating how &quot;productive&quot; our conversation was. This went on record and was used against me later on. I was also retaliated for writing the initial grievance memo. Two months later, I was blindsided into a meeting with my supervisor and her supervisor, the senior vice president (a cold-blooded meglomaniac, and an African American, btw) and given a memo called &quot;Position Duties and Responsibilities,&quot; written in collusion with the director of human resources. I was told that this memo was a response to my grievance memo and that such a response--clearly a mobilization to set me up to be fired--was HR &quot;policy,&quot; which it was not. Let me also say that my contributions to the honors program and the university were exemplary. Such a memo had nothing to do with my job performance. So much for the direct address.

Now for the formal grievance process. Forget it. I went through it and was stonewalled the whole way through. Such processes are &quot;fa show,&quot; and nothing else. When I made my last appeal (by the way, if you do go through the formal grievance process, you will be mired in documentation--your life will become all about documentation--I&#039;ve got 535 pages myself. 

Once you are on the other side, you are on the other side. One more story, this one from the institution both Historiann and I were employed. I was a &quot;diversity hire&quot; (proudly). Three years into my time there, as the department was getting ready for a search, the dean came to a department meeting to explain to our white-boy yahoos the importance of looking for diversity when hiring. He instructed us to look at &quot;promise&quot; over &quot;record.&quot; During this conversation, I explained how much I appreciated this approach. HIred 1/2-way into my dissertation, I was one of those promising candidates. The problem, however, was that with the high teaching load at this university, it was almost impossible to build a record. I suggested we include a pre-tenure leave for such hires so that they could write more productively. He responded that the university already provided leaves. Still on fairly good terms with my department and the chair, I received support in requesting a leave for myself. After my 4th-year review, however, the chair came into my office and told me that the dean had changed his mind and come up with an alternative plan: instead of being released from my 3 classes, I would be released from 2, teach 1, and &quot;pay back&quot; the other two by teaching for free sometime in the future before tenure. I told her I needed to think about it, and she, agitated, insisted that I tell her the next morning. That night, I spoke to the goofy guy I was dating--a sculptor going to a community college for engineering, in other words, someone with no connection to the university, no Koolaid--who responded that they were asking me to do more work for the same amount of money. He was right, and after receiving an email at 9 am the next day, I declined the offer. From that point on, the entire department stopped talking to me. No one understood why I would turn down such a &quot;good deal.&quot; My thought in return was that academics will go to great lengths to convince themselves that dog shit is caviar. In other words, to reference my comment from yesterday, I did not accept their definition of happiness--laying down and taking it up the ass for being a delinquent girl who, according to my chair, did not know how to budget my time (she actually sat me down with a yellow pad to make a timeline for me). Once you do not accept the terms, you are done. And, btw, so much for diversity.

Let me also say that HR is NOT your friend. These people are bots, and they are trained to be so as part of this totalitarian work climate (the HR enterprise keeps growing, btw). I could not even get my complaint filed in this person&#039;s personnel file at the second job (although mine was loaded). I was also told during my first meeting with HR that I did not have much of a case because there were no other formal complaints. Go figure.

I hate to be so hardline, but I do think the scenario is radically grave. If we don&#039;t confront this reality, then we will not get very far. Unions, too, are a bust. So adversarial they are not. At my last place of employment, the union would not even advocate for women faculty who felt that they were being saddled unfairly with too much committee/caretaking work. Not the answer.

While I was going through my last situation, I came across a website by Tim Field, which helped me immensely. Because he passed away, the website is no longer active. But his book, Bully in Sight, is a very good resource for understanding what happens to bully victims, and why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I hate to be a spoiler. Based on my experience and the extensive research I&#8217;ve done, there is no way out and there is no solution. You either leave or become very ill, and perhaps suicidal. I tried direct confrontation&#8211;a memo and a conversation&#8211;and was bullied into writing a conciliatory email stating how &#8220;productive&#8221; our conversation was. This went on record and was used against me later on. I was also retaliated for writing the initial grievance memo. Two months later, I was blindsided into a meeting with my supervisor and her supervisor, the senior vice president (a cold-blooded meglomaniac, and an African American, btw) and given a memo called &#8220;Position Duties and Responsibilities,&#8221; written in collusion with the director of human resources. I was told that this memo was a response to my grievance memo and that such a response&#8211;clearly a mobilization to set me up to be fired&#8211;was HR &#8220;policy,&#8221; which it was not. Let me also say that my contributions to the honors program and the university were exemplary. Such a memo had nothing to do with my job performance. So much for the direct address.</p>
<p>Now for the formal grievance process. Forget it. I went through it and was stonewalled the whole way through. Such processes are &#8220;fa show,&#8221; and nothing else. When I made my last appeal (by the way, if you do go through the formal grievance process, you will be mired in documentation&#8211;your life will become all about documentation&#8211;I&#8217;ve got 535 pages myself. </p>
<p>Once you are on the other side, you are on the other side. One more story, this one from the institution both Historiann and I were employed. I was a &#8220;diversity hire&#8221; (proudly). Three years into my time there, as the department was getting ready for a search, the dean came to a department meeting to explain to our white-boy yahoos the importance of looking for diversity when hiring. He instructed us to look at &#8220;promise&#8221; over &#8220;record.&#8221; During this conversation, I explained how much I appreciated this approach. HIred 1/2-way into my dissertation, I was one of those promising candidates. The problem, however, was that with the high teaching load at this university, it was almost impossible to build a record. I suggested we include a pre-tenure leave for such hires so that they could write more productively. He responded that the university already provided leaves. Still on fairly good terms with my department and the chair, I received support in requesting a leave for myself. After my 4th-year review, however, the chair came into my office and told me that the dean had changed his mind and come up with an alternative plan: instead of being released from my 3 classes, I would be released from 2, teach 1, and &#8220;pay back&#8221; the other two by teaching for free sometime in the future before tenure. I told her I needed to think about it, and she, agitated, insisted that I tell her the next morning. That night, I spoke to the goofy guy I was dating&#8211;a sculptor going to a community college for engineering, in other words, someone with no connection to the university, no Koolaid&#8211;who responded that they were asking me to do more work for the same amount of money. He was right, and after receiving an email at 9 am the next day, I declined the offer. From that point on, the entire department stopped talking to me. No one understood why I would turn down such a &#8220;good deal.&#8221; My thought in return was that academics will go to great lengths to convince themselves that dog shit is caviar. In other words, to reference my comment from yesterday, I did not accept their definition of happiness&#8211;laying down and taking it up the ass for being a delinquent girl who, according to my chair, did not know how to budget my time (she actually sat me down with a yellow pad to make a timeline for me). Once you do not accept the terms, you are done. And, btw, so much for diversity.</p>
<p>Let me also say that HR is NOT your friend. These people are bots, and they are trained to be so as part of this totalitarian work climate (the HR enterprise keeps growing, btw). I could not even get my complaint filed in this person&#8217;s personnel file at the second job (although mine was loaded). I was also told during my first meeting with HR that I did not have much of a case because there were no other formal complaints. Go figure.</p>
<p>I hate to be so hardline, but I do think the scenario is radically grave. If we don&#8217;t confront this reality, then we will not get very far. Unions, too, are a bust. So adversarial they are not. At my last place of employment, the union would not even advocate for women faculty who felt that they were being saddled unfairly with too much committee/caretaking work. Not the answer.</p>
<p>While I was going through my last situation, I came across a website by Tim Field, which helped me immensely. Because he passed away, the website is no longer active. But his book, Bully in Sight, is a very good resource for understanding what happens to bully victims, and why.</p>
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