Comments on: Bossy broads round-up: come and get it, boys! http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:26:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: Zyban. http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-701519 Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:55:56 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-701519 Zyban side effects….

Zyban. What is zyban. Taking chantix with zyban….

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-28015 Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:21:39 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-28015 I’ve seen all kinds of senior people (men and women) in my field in the archives–at least the ones who manage to produce books at an amazing rate! Isn’t that one of the pleasures of doing archival research? (I was always running into Mary Beth Norton when I was researching my book! And I’m sure MBN logs way more days in the archives than I do these days…)

I too think that divide between gender/language and women/archival evidence is too strict, but I see what the commentor was getting at, although I think it holds more for modern history. (At least, I hope it’s not a strict divide! My book did a lot of study of languge, but much of my analysis was of unpublished documents that I had to dig out of archives, as well as some numbers-crunching.) I think it’s typical if you’re doing pre-1800 history in America (and perhaps pre-1700 history in Western Europe?) that you have to do archival work to uncover sufficient evidence–there just aren’t all that many newspapers, books, pamphlets, etc. to analyze, and so you go look for the letters, diaries, court records, etc. (I realize New Kid that you’re a medievalist, and so this probably seems like an embarassment of riches to you! I agree with you that 20th history blows my mind–I don’t think I could switch to having to rule OUT evidence, rather than desperately searching for evidence that I could rule IN. A different challenge alltogether!)

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By: New Kid on the Hallway http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27830 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:32:04 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27830 Interesting point about not seeing the REALLY senior scholars in the archives (though I’ve run into them in the BL and the PRO in England, definitely). I think the impulse to synthesize/make “big arguments” at that career stage is true (and honestly, I think it’s a good one – I think many jr people are so specialized that we need people out there trying to write the big picture stuff!). Something that’s the case with some medieval topics, however, is that once you’ve mined enough archives, you can settle back and write books steadily with that material without always having to go back for extended stints. I work in a field that has a LOT of medieval archival stuff printed (all those industrious British antiquarians), which helps. For instance, my grad advisor is a hard-core archival social historian, but I don’t believe she has to immerse herself in the archives that much these days, because she’s got such a good pool of archival material accumulated (and for the Middle Ages, there is only so much material available – if you can get a set of records put on microfilm, you can pore over it for years). This is probably a little different for non-medievalists, though. (I think it’s even more true for non-archeologist classicists – I always get the sense that the people I know who do Greek/Latin stuff all know all the sources there are to know!)

And that being said, I suspect that some of the other things that come with seniority – heading research centers, leading national scholarly associations – have also cut into her purely archival time.

(About gender vs. women’s history – I don’t think that the one *has* to be language and the other *has* to be behavior; I think you can do both either way, and would especially like to see the gender-as-behavior stuff. But I do think that it’s a rough-and-ready distinction that describes practice, in a very generalizing way.)

And yes, historiann, I agree about the greater ease of access for Americanists! Of course, you people tend to have so many MORE sources to deal with, too… (well, in some fields, anyway. I couldn’t be a 20th century person to save my life!) But the difference in access raises the question for me, too – will Europeanists get shortchanged or will American Europeanists (Africanists/Asianists/Latin Americanists/Antipodeanists etc.) end up writing a different kind of history than American Americanists do?

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27781 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:01:26 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27781 Hi Indyanna–good points about life intruding after the first book and tenure. I sure seem to have slowed down on the conference circut and research trips for the past 5 years or so–but then, it might have something to do with having moved out to Colorado too, instead of someplace closer to my research archives.

You’re right that in some ways, junior scholars and grad students are freer. But, as in life, it seems we either have the time (when we’re younger) or the money (when we’re older), but rarely both at the same time!

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By: Indyanna http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27754 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:43:09 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27754 Interesting point that New Kid makes, because I was at a talk last night at the McNeil Center where the presenter said *exactly* that about gender history and women’s history. Viz., that gender history is about “language” while women’s history is about “behavior.” I’m not sure I agree, and it was fairly difficult to disentangle the presenter’s specific intent from what was a very dense argument about her concrete project. But I whipped out an envelope and wrote this down precisely because it evoked some of the questions Historiann has been raising lately under the rubric that cultural history has just “broke.”

On the question of age/stage/status and the archives, it’s a pretty mixed picture, I think. Around here, you could literally stalk the relevant floors [4 and 5] for history in the area’s preeminent research university library, or the reading room of one of the country’s most major historical societies, often without seeing ANY senior scholars. (Truly senior ones, I mean). Maybe we should posit that archival work crests at the dissertation stage of (SOME) first projects, and then early on in (MANY) second book projects, but beyond there the transcendent impulse is to synthesize, pontificate, and/or criticize or re-read “big argument” issues in the field in question? Not sure. Like many of the themes on this blog, family status and obligations may be as relevant as institutional research budgets or demand-reward structures.

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By: Respek : Historiann : History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27726 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:27:29 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27726 [...] and Notorious Ph.D., Girl Scholar, but even to senior women scholars.  Go read here and here (in the comments) for descriptions of the two sessions last month at the 2008 International [...]

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27710 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:37:04 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27710 Shhhh…we won’t tell, Fratguy! Sorry you’ve had a bad morning–but, I’m afraid that Miss Mary is rather unworthy of your ire. No one is siding with Miss Thing, and he must just be beside himself that he as a self-proclaimed MAN isn’t getting more respect as an anonymous grad student compared to the women at the Berks and who comment here who are not anonymous, and who have written, you know, lots of books ‘n’ stuff.

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By: Fratguy http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27707 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:23:01 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27707 Historiann,

Thanks for the cowboygirl pics, afraid I have nothing to add to this thread other than Mercurius is a sad sad human being, hope he posts soon though, it has been a rough morning and I’m looking to vent some frustration.

As to the issue of having a crush, I will only own up to being glad that the IT guys at work see this as a stricltly academic site and Mrs Fratguy may be receiving some non traditional western wear come next Feb 14th.

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By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27703 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:06:20 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27703 Oh, but I’m sure no one would ever put the evil juju on Knitting Clio! (And yes, it’s childish, but *I’m* brilliant too–why can’t everyone see that?) Well, maybe Herzberg would like to stick it to you…?

Notorious: yes, the “foes of women’s history” like Miss Mary Rumphius are just silly, it’s the ones who *mean so well* when they try to school the girls who are more of an irritation. Why didn’t those totally obvious things occur to us before??? How wonderful that Susan Stuard, Judith Bennett, Connie Berman, and Merry Wiesner-Hanks now have the benefit of all twenty-four years of your wisdom! PRAY TO JESUS TO THANK HIM FOR THIS GRADUATE STUDENT, WHO HAS SHOWN US THE LIGHT!

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By: Knitting Clio http://www.historiann.com/2008/06/20/bossy-broads-round-up-come-and-get-it-boys/comment-page-1/#comment-27695 Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:49:07 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/?p=392#comment-27695 Not to be a spoil sport — but having served as a blind reviewer on numerous occasions, and worked hard to provide constructive comments, I think the voodoo doll idea is a bit childish. Sounds like a grad. school version of Rate My Prof. Guess what, not everyone thinks you’re brilliant!

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