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	<title>Comments on: NPR concern trolls women who delay pregnancy until after age 22</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-51435</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-51435</guid>
		<description>Dan, the "idiocy" I was calling out was the media coverage of this report.  (E.g., "The whole story is so utterly idiotic that I don’t have the time or energy to cover it all.")

Please &lt;a href="http://www.historiann.com/rules-for-commenting/" rel="nofollow"&gt;read the rules&lt;/a&gt; for commenting at this blog.  Your comment is extremely condescending and ignores the point of my post, which is that historically this panic over maternal age in childbearing is an utterly new phenomenon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, the &#8220;idiocy&#8221; I was calling out was the media coverage of this report.  (E.g., &#8220;The whole story is so utterly idiotic that I don’t have the time or energy to cover it all.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Please <a href="http://www.historiann.com/rules-for-commenting/" rel="nofollow">read the rules</a> for commenting at this blog.  Your comment is extremely condescending and ignores the point of my post, which is that historically this panic over maternal age in childbearing is an utterly new phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-51432</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-51432</guid>
		<description>To begin, it is fair to say that your analysis of age and living conditions for children are quite accurate.  Mothers who are older would TEND to be more educated, more responsible, and better prepared than younger mothers in the context of modern society.

However, you miss the point of the research.

In the context of biology, research and evidence has shown that age, above 22, and fertility are negatively correlated in a statistically significant way.

Consider a couple of things:

First, to call scientific research "idiocy" ruins your credibility.  Science is by its nature blind and impartial.  It does not consider social standards, or demographic trends of age versus quality of life.  If you want to decide when to have a baby, you MUST take ALL factors into account.  The research says that the chances of producing a viable offspring are at maximum at age 22.  That is one piece of information.

Instead of flaming science, it would be a better use of time and energy to educate yourself and those around you about how science works and why it is important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To begin, it is fair to say that your analysis of age and living conditions for children are quite accurate.  Mothers who are older would TEND to be more educated, more responsible, and better prepared than younger mothers in the context of modern society.</p>
<p>However, you miss the point of the research.</p>
<p>In the context of biology, research and evidence has shown that age, above 22, and fertility are negatively correlated in a statistically significant way.</p>
<p>Consider a couple of things:</p>
<p>First, to call scientific research &#8220;idiocy&#8221; ruins your credibility.  Science is by its nature blind and impartial.  It does not consider social standards, or demographic trends of age versus quality of life.  If you want to decide when to have a baby, you MUST take ALL factors into account.  The research says that the chances of producing a viable offspring are at maximum at age 22.  That is one piece of information.</p>
<p>Instead of flaming science, it would be a better use of time and energy to educate yourself and those around you about how science works and why it is important.</p>
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		<title>By: Mameha</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-51199</link>
		<dc:creator>Mameha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-51199</guid>
		<description>Now, I'm not saying I completely agree with that article. Women should have children when they are ready. I'm just pointing out that the risks do increase with age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, I&#8217;m not saying I completely agree with that article. Women should have children when they are ready. I&#8217;m just pointing out that the risks do increase with age.</p>
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		<title>By: Mameha</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-51197</link>
		<dc:creator>Mameha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-51197</guid>
		<description>In response to: But, let’s take a look at the reality of situation, which is that there is no “crisis of infertility,” and that children are not in jeopardy if their mothers are 35 or 40 and in the paid workforce.


"Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to: But, let’s take a look at the reality of situation, which is that there is no “crisis of infertility,” and that children are not in jeopardy if their mothers are 35 or 40 and in the paid workforce.</p>
<p>&#8220;Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Mameha</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-51195</link>
		<dc:creator>Mameha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-51195</guid>
		<description>How about looking at the FACTS?

"How Old is Too Old to Have a Baby?
According to the Mayo Clinic, a woman's fertility peaks between the ages of 20 and 24. However, fertility rates remain relatively constant through the early 30s, after which they begin to decline:

At age 30 to 35, fertility is 15 to 20 percent below maximum. From age 35 to 39, the decrease is 25 to 50 percent. From 40 to 45, the decrease is 50 to 95 percent.

Technically, any woman who has not gone through menopause, and who does not have other reproductive problems, can become pregnant. Successful pregnancies have been reported in women as old as 59.

Pregnancy Risks After 35
The risk of miscarriage increases after age 35; by the early 40s, more than 50 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many of these occur at an early stage and may not even be detected, or may be mistaken for a late period. The majority of these miscarriages are due to the chromosomal abnormalities in the fetus."

"At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19."

Kthnx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about looking at the FACTS?</p>
<p>&#8220;How Old is Too Old to Have a Baby?<br />
According to the Mayo Clinic, a woman&#8217;s fertility peaks between the ages of 20 and 24. However, fertility rates remain relatively constant through the early 30s, after which they begin to decline:</p>
<p>At age 30 to 35, fertility is 15 to 20 percent below maximum. From age 35 to 39, the decrease is 25 to 50 percent. From 40 to 45, the decrease is 50 to 95 percent.</p>
<p>Technically, any woman who has not gone through menopause, and who does not have other reproductive problems, can become pregnant. Successful pregnancies have been reported in women as old as 59.</p>
<p>Pregnancy Risks After 35<br />
The risk of miscarriage increases after age 35; by the early 40s, more than 50 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Many of these occur at an early stage and may not even be detected, or may be mistaken for a late period. The majority of these miscarriages are due to the chromosomal abnormalities in the fetus.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19.&#8221;</p>
<p>Kthnx.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-9557</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 13:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-9557</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ann and DV, for weighing in.  Ann, your points about the randomness of infertility are good--but no one ever talks about women in their 20s seeking treatment.  (Until perhaps after this story aired, with the goalposts of motherhood moved back to AGE 22!)

And DV:  what an interesting temp assignment!  I was never that lucky with my temp jobs.  I've heard that many women seeking infertility treatments may feel pressured by a male partner who won't accept an adopted child.  Talk about a pressured existence--feeling like a failure as a woman (whether or not it's your body's "fault" or his, the woman's body is the battleground), and fearing losing your relationship at the same time.

I think we'd all be better off if in the U.S. we adopted (so to speak) the Native American tradition of "fictive kin," and were more flexible about family.  Families should be flexible units that can incorporate more than just blood kin.  (The fetishization of "blood" seems to be all about patriarchy, property rights, and capitalism anyway, than about true family values.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ann and DV, for weighing in.  Ann, your points about the randomness of infertility are good&#8211;but no one ever talks about women in their 20s seeking treatment.  (Until perhaps after this story aired, with the goalposts of motherhood moved back to AGE 22!)</p>
<p>And DV:  what an interesting temp assignment!  I was never that lucky with my temp jobs.  I&#8217;ve heard that many women seeking infertility treatments may feel pressured by a male partner who won&#8217;t accept an adopted child.  Talk about a pressured existence&#8211;feeling like a failure as a woman (whether or not it&#8217;s your body&#8217;s &#8220;fault&#8221; or his, the woman&#8217;s body is the battleground), and fearing losing your relationship at the same time.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;d all be better off if in the U.S. we adopted (so to speak) the Native American tradition of &#8220;fictive kin,&#8221; and were more flexible about family.  Families should be flexible units that can incorporate more than just blood kin.  (The fetishization of &#8220;blood&#8221; seems to be all about patriarchy, property rights, and capitalism anyway, than about true family values.)</p>
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		<title>By: DV</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-9550</link>
		<dc:creator>DV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 04:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-9550</guid>
		<description>I'm a bit late to this conversation, but wanted to add a comment. 

I'm pleased to see Ann Bartow raised an issue missing from this conversation on the pressures women face to reproduce.  That is, actual reproduction.  I worked as a temp in a fertility clinic.  Many of the women I met faced serious challenges conceiving and were dead set on doing so.  They spent tens of thousands of dollars attempting to get pregnant and were willing to use retirement savings on future attempts.  None of them wanted to hear the word "adoption." They couldn't see themselves as mothers unless they gave birth.  And this, I think, is another oppressive aspect of the expectation - the myth that "true" mothers have experienced childbirth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit late to this conversation, but wanted to add a comment. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pleased to see Ann Bartow raised an issue missing from this conversation on the pressures women face to reproduce.  That is, actual reproduction.  I worked as a temp in a fertility clinic.  Many of the women I met faced serious challenges conceiving and were dead set on doing so.  They spent tens of thousands of dollars attempting to get pregnant and were willing to use retirement savings on future attempts.  None of them wanted to hear the word &#8220;adoption.&#8221; They couldn&#8217;t see themselves as mothers unless they gave birth.  And this, I think, is another oppressive aspect of the expectation - the myth that &#8220;true&#8221; mothers have experienced childbirth.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann Bartow</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-9547</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Bartow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 01:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-9547</guid>
		<description>I actually have a lot of friends who struggled with infertility. Some took fertility drugs or did successful rounds of IVF, some adopted, some just decided not to become parents. But there wasn't a lot of rhyme or reason to it, at least as far as I could discern. Some were unable to have children in their 20s, others were eventually successful in their 40s. Some are still figuring out what they want to do.  

One odd, sad story: In a family of 10, 6 were female, and 5 of them had fertility issues. The oldest got pregnant as a teenager, and gave the baby up for adoption. She married in her 20s but was unable to conceive, so she then adopted a child! You just can't predict these things. And it's definitely better not to ask, and especially not to pry, why certain choices were made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually have a lot of friends who struggled with infertility. Some took fertility drugs or did successful rounds of IVF, some adopted, some just decided not to become parents. But there wasn&#8217;t a lot of rhyme or reason to it, at least as far as I could discern. Some were unable to have children in their 20s, others were eventually successful in their 40s. Some are still figuring out what they want to do.  </p>
<p>One odd, sad story: In a family of 10, 6 were female, and 5 of them had fertility issues. The oldest got pregnant as a teenager, and gave the baby up for adoption. She married in her 20s but was unable to conceive, so she then adopted a child! You just can&#8217;t predict these things. And it&#8217;s definitely better not to ask, and especially not to pry, why certain choices were made.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-9524</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 19:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-9524</guid>
		<description>I hadn't considered that angle!  There is no respect for the middle-aged paunch now that women are giving birth in their 50s and 60s.  Gone is another perk of middle-age:  the right to finally let it all go to hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t considered that angle!  There is no respect for the middle-aged paunch now that women are giving birth in their 50s and 60s.  Gone is another perk of middle-age:  the right to finally let it all go to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Knitting Clio</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/05/08/npr-concern-trolls-women-who-delay-pregnancy-until-after-age-22/#comment-9520</link>
		<dc:creator>Knitting Clio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 19:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=299#comment-9520</guid>
		<description>I don't know -- advances in reproductive technology and the boomlet of celebrity Moms in their 40s is just making folks ask the same dumb question until you're nearly 50.

I guess it's better than being mistaken for pregnant which happened to me last summer!  [I'm not fat but I'm getting a bit of a middle-age paunch]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know &#8212; advances in reproductive technology and the boomlet of celebrity Moms in their 40s is just making folks ask the same dumb question until you&#8217;re nearly 50.</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s better than being mistaken for pregnant which happened to me last summer!  [I'm not fat but I'm getting a bit of a middle-age paunch]</p>
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