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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Baby Mama&#8221;&#8216;s baby haka*</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8165</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8165</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...so I guess we can put Lane in the Rogen/Giamatti/Hoffman category of &quot;only in the movies...?&quot;  (He&#039;s not quite as trollish as Hoffman, though.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;so I guess we can put Lane in the Rogen/Giamatti/Hoffman category of &#8220;only in the movies&#8230;?&#8221;  (He&#8217;s not quite as trollish as Hoffman, though.)</p>
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		<title>By: Fratguy</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8143</link>
		<dc:creator>Fratguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8143</guid>
		<description>Fey is zaftig?, Dude Tina Fey is hot, Mr Lane on the other hand is not so hot
http://www.identitytheory.com/idgraphics/lane2.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fey is zaftig?, Dude Tina Fey is hot, Mr Lane on the other hand is not so hot<br />
<a href="http://www.identitytheory.com/idgraphics/lane2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.identitytheory.com/idgraphics/lane2.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8129</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8129</guid>
		<description>Thanks, KC!  Great plugs for White Trash Mom and Our Bodies, our Blog, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, KC!  Great plugs for White Trash Mom and Our Bodies, our Blog, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Knitting Clio</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8119</link>
		<dc:creator>Knitting Clio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8119</guid>
		<description>P.S.  Speaking for the BWHBC, here&#039;s some information on diabetes and pregnancy from &quot;Our Bodies, Our Blog&quot;

http://ourbodiesourblog.org/blog/2008/04/on_increasing_rates_of_diabetes_in_pregnancy_1.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Speaking for the BWHBC, here&#8217;s some information on diabetes and pregnancy from &#8220;Our Bodies, Our Blog&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://ourbodiesourblog.org/blog/2008/04/on_increasing_rates_of_diabetes_in_pregnancy_1.php" rel="nofollow">http://ourbodiesourblog.org/blog/2008/04/on_increasing_rates_of_diabetes_in_pregnancy_1.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Knitting Clio</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8118</link>
		<dc:creator>Knitting Clio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8118</guid>
		<description>I think the main concern in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century was infant and maternal mortality in general, not older mothers per se.  I do remember seeing a brochure on the older mother in the Boston Women&#039;s Health Book Collective papers at the Schlesinger Library.  I didn&#039;t read it that thoroughly because I was looking for something else, but apparently this was trying to reassure women while also pointing to the unique issues of women over thirty.

I would agree that the word &quot;white trash&quot; is not cool, even if along with &quot;redneck&quot; it has been reclaimed by individuals who fit that demographic. [e.g. see http://www.whitetrashmom.com/]
 As you know from my blog, I didn&#039;t particularly like being called a redneck by one of my colleagues (along with having my intelligence questioned -- the two sort of go hand in hand).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the main concern in the late nineteenth/early twentieth century was infant and maternal mortality in general, not older mothers per se.  I do remember seeing a brochure on the older mother in the Boston Women&#8217;s Health Book Collective papers at the Schlesinger Library.  I didn&#8217;t read it that thoroughly because I was looking for something else, but apparently this was trying to reassure women while also pointing to the unique issues of women over thirty.</p>
<p>I would agree that the word &#8220;white trash&#8221; is not cool, even if along with &#8220;redneck&#8221; it has been reclaimed by individuals who fit that demographic. [e.g. see <a href="http://www.whitetrashmom.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.whitetrashmom.com/</a><br />
 As you know from my blog, I didn&#8217;t particularly like being called a redneck by one of my colleagues (along with having my intelligence questioned &#8212; the two sort of go hand in hand).</p>
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		<title>By: Just like the mother-fucking Flintstones&#8230; &#171; Blurred Productions</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8073</link>
		<dc:creator>Just like the mother-fucking Flintstones&#8230; &#171; Blurred Productions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8073</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted in Kevin Smith, TV/Movies by Smith Michaels on April 28th, 2008   This post on the new Tina Fey movie got me thinking a bit about a well-worn genre of films (and TV shows) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted in Kevin Smith, TV/Movies by Smith Michaels on April 28th, 2008   This post on the new Tina Fey movie got me thinking a bit about a well-worn genre of films (and TV shows) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8067</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8067</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks Charlotte for clearing things up from your experience actually seeing the movie!  I think I&#039;ll definitely have to get out this week to see it.  

Good point about the equation of motherhood as true personhood.  Most mothers I know struggle with their identities and interests being subsumed by their children&#039;s identities and interests--so it&#039;s strange to think that parenthood = personhood.  (It may of course = womanhood, which is a very different thing from personhood!)

As for class:  &quot;white trash?&quot;  Ugh.  I&#039;m all for making that term as verboten as the N word and the C word.  (Not criticizing you for reporting its use, but rather questioning its use in the movie...but I&#039;ll have to see it to understand the context.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks Charlotte for clearing things up from your experience actually seeing the movie!  I think I&#8217;ll definitely have to get out this week to see it.  </p>
<p>Good point about the equation of motherhood as true personhood.  Most mothers I know struggle with their identities and interests being subsumed by their children&#8217;s identities and interests&#8211;so it&#8217;s strange to think that parenthood = personhood.  (It may of course = womanhood, which is a very different thing from personhood!)</p>
<p>As for class:  &#8220;white trash?&#8221;  Ugh.  I&#8217;m all for making that term as verboten as the N word and the C word.  (Not criticizing you for reporting its use, but rather questioning its use in the movie&#8230;but I&#8217;ll have to see it to understand the context.)</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8066</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8066</guid>
		<description>SPOILER ALERT:

I actually just saw the movie last night, and class differences are evident. Fey&#039;s character actually calls Poehler&#039;s character &quot;white trash.&quot; And as far as the age thing, the movie starts with the premise that Fey&#039;s character, Kate, is too old, but she actually has a misshapen uterus from medicine that her mother took when pregnant.

What bummed me out was that it was a movie that emphasized motherhood = true personhood, or babies = happiness. No baby, no sense of worth. Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPOILER ALERT:</p>
<p>I actually just saw the movie last night, and class differences are evident. Fey&#8217;s character actually calls Poehler&#8217;s character &#8220;white trash.&#8221; And as far as the age thing, the movie starts with the premise that Fey&#8217;s character, Kate, is too old, but she actually has a misshapen uterus from medicine that her mother took when pregnant.</p>
<p>What bummed me out was that it was a movie that emphasized motherhood = true personhood, or babies = happiness. No baby, no sense of worth. Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: ej</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8059</link>
		<dc:creator>ej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8059</guid>
		<description>Clearly advanced maternal age is related to a higher incidence of medical problems, but its interesting that the media doesn&#039;t really concern itself with that narrative. Its concern is inability to conceive.  

And its not women over 35 having children who are targeted, its women over 35 who are having their first child. A different story, no? At least, according to the media.

And as a woman who was considered &quot;high-risk&quot; who happened to be one month past 35 when she got pregnant, I was resentful that I was target of concern, yet more problems arise from high blood pressure, diabetes, and obesity.  In many cases, these things can be controlled, yet they seldom enter into the discourse about pregnancy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly advanced maternal age is related to a higher incidence of medical problems, but its interesting that the media doesn&#8217;t really concern itself with that narrative. Its concern is inability to conceive.  </p>
<p>And its not women over 35 having children who are targeted, its women over 35 who are having their first child. A different story, no? At least, according to the media.</p>
<p>And as a woman who was considered &#8220;high-risk&#8221; who happened to be one month past 35 when she got pregnant, I was resentful that I was target of concern, yet more problems arise from high blood pressure, diabetes, and obesity.  In many cases, these things can be controlled, yet they seldom enter into the discourse about pregnancy.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/27/baby-mamas-baby-haka/comment-page-1/#comment-8056</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=275#comment-8056</guid>
		<description>Bing, you&#039;re absolutely right.  However, this risk is magnified in the popular media, and the risks that more and more very young mothers face (such as the dramatically rising risk of diabetic young women) never become part of the narrative of risk of childbearing for women.  

In the colonial era, women who gave birth through their 30s and even well into their 40s were celebrated--it was believed that fecundity was evidence of thriving health, so having a &quot;teeming belly&quot; (with perhaps a 6th, 9th, or 12th child, by the time women were in their 40s) was a status symbol for women.  (Susan Klepp had an excellent article on the cultural interpretation of pregnancy in early America in the Journal of American History back in 1998.)  I&#039;m a little less clear on nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century history, but so far as I know, maternal age just isn&#039;t on the map of cultural anxieties until women have the power NOT to have children until in their 30s or 40s (i.e. with the introduction of the Pill).  Then, all of a sudden, the spectre of &quot;geriatric primups&quot; becomes something to worry about, something that&#039;s doubtlessly bad for women and bad for children, etc.  (Maybe Knitting Clio, who&#039;s an expert on modern women&#039;s medical history, will chime in with some thoughts or corrections, if she&#039;s still following this thread.)

All of my friends who were lucky enough to be healthy throug their 20s and early 30s (i.e. no endometriosis, no diseases or scarring of the cervix or uterus) and then decided to have children in their mid- to late-30s got pregnant really, really quickly.  (Shockingly quickly, actually--hooray for 15-20 years of vigilantly using birth control!)  A few friends in their late 30s took some fertility drugs, but then had healthy babies without resorting to more invasive reproductive assistance techniques.  Of course, &quot;my friends&quot; are not a scientific sample--but our experiences suggest that there&#039;s a perfectly happy narrative about getting educations, building a thriving careers, and THEN having adorible spawn, and that choosing that course (the way so many men do) doesn&#039;t lead women to frustration, doom, and second-guessing.

Perhaps there&#039;s something that preserves youth when you go indoors and spend your 20s and early 30s in classes, libraries and archives?  I thought it was just a good way to prevent more UVA/UVB sun damage, but perhaps it also puts those ovaries on ice?  Or maybe it&#039;s just a lifestyle that doesn&#039;t leave room for too much partying?  Wev.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bing, you&#8217;re absolutely right.  However, this risk is magnified in the popular media, and the risks that more and more very young mothers face (such as the dramatically rising risk of diabetic young women) never become part of the narrative of risk of childbearing for women.  </p>
<p>In the colonial era, women who gave birth through their 30s and even well into their 40s were celebrated&#8211;it was believed that fecundity was evidence of thriving health, so having a &#8220;teeming belly&#8221; (with perhaps a 6th, 9th, or 12th child, by the time women were in their 40s) was a status symbol for women.  (Susan Klepp had an excellent article on the cultural interpretation of pregnancy in early America in the Journal of American History back in 1998.)  I&#8217;m a little less clear on nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century history, but so far as I know, maternal age just isn&#8217;t on the map of cultural anxieties until women have the power NOT to have children until in their 30s or 40s (i.e. with the introduction of the Pill).  Then, all of a sudden, the spectre of &#8220;geriatric primups&#8221; becomes something to worry about, something that&#8217;s doubtlessly bad for women and bad for children, etc.  (Maybe Knitting Clio, who&#8217;s an expert on modern women&#8217;s medical history, will chime in with some thoughts or corrections, if she&#8217;s still following this thread.)</p>
<p>All of my friends who were lucky enough to be healthy throug their 20s and early 30s (i.e. no endometriosis, no diseases or scarring of the cervix or uterus) and then decided to have children in their mid- to late-30s got pregnant really, really quickly.  (Shockingly quickly, actually&#8211;hooray for 15-20 years of vigilantly using birth control!)  A few friends in their late 30s took some fertility drugs, but then had healthy babies without resorting to more invasive reproductive assistance techniques.  Of course, &#8220;my friends&#8221; are not a scientific sample&#8211;but our experiences suggest that there&#8217;s a perfectly happy narrative about getting educations, building a thriving careers, and THEN having adorible spawn, and that choosing that course (the way so many men do) doesn&#8217;t lead women to frustration, doom, and second-guessing.</p>
<p>Perhaps there&#8217;s something that preserves youth when you go indoors and spend your 20s and early 30s in classes, libraries and archives?  I thought it was just a good way to prevent more UVA/UVB sun damage, but perhaps it also puts those ovaries on ice?  Or maybe it&#8217;s just a lifestyle that doesn&#8217;t leave room for too much partying?  Wev.</p>
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