<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Feminist Art, Feminist History, and Public History:  Friction in the Archives?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:29:24 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7467</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7467</guid>
		<description>Thanks, SF, especially for your articulation of the differences between the WACK! show and the one at YBCA, and your description of archive art.  I couldn&#039;t remember the term, and am glad you provided an overview.  The show in NYC sounds interesting--maybe that would be a place to go to see the different approaches artists have versus public historians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, SF, especially for your articulation of the differences between the WACK! show and the one at YBCA, and your description of archive art.  I couldn&#8217;t remember the term, and am glad you provided an overview.  The show in NYC sounds interesting&#8211;maybe that would be a place to go to see the different approaches artists have versus public historians.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: said friend</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7441</link>
		<dc:creator>said friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7441</guid>
		<description>Well, now, where to begin? Sorry for the late post, but I am on the west coast and a busy, busy girl. First, the comparison to the Yale student&#039;s work and Carolee Schneeman&#039;s Interior Scroll is wrong headed. Yes, Schneeman pushed the envelope big time (I remember showing the video in a women&#039;s studies class a few years ago; the queer students cheered, while the heteros cringed). But Schneeman&#039;s act of pulling a scroll full of poetic wisdom out of her vagina is a gesture, albeit radical and confrontational, that coherently executed the impulse of a woman to identify with her body and offer this gesture to an audience. I love Interior Scroll, for so many reasons, but most of all because she transformed what was/is hidden and considered shameful (the female body) and made it brazenly beautiful, and even holy. Next to Schneeman&#039;s work, the Yale performance seems immature and frivolous, and again, lacking in conceptual coherence. Just because two pieces provoked similar public scorn and outrage does not mean that they are on par with one another. That is a flaw in logic.

Now back to the relation between the Yerba Buena&#039;s Women, Art, and Politics and WACK. To me the difference in quality of these two exhibits has to do with how they framed themselves. WACK is specifically about early feminist art (1965-80) and so has contextualized itself and the representative art as belonging to a particular time in history and responding to that time in historical ways. The Yerba Buena show, covering art from the 70s to the present, is simply all over the place and lacks clear definition (just consider the title: women, art, and politics. Can one get more broad than that?). Perhaps if it were called Feminist Political Art and Its Legacy, it would make more sense (although it would still not be all that impressive). One could say that WACK presents art that very specifically and urgently responded to particular material conditions--the lack of support for women art students and artists, as well as the social issues all feminists were battling with at the time. The question might then be asked: what material conditions are contemporary feminist artists faced with today? What are they battling? Is the battle different? Is there even a battle? As an aside, the younger women in my studio class did not identify with the exhibit at all and do not feel the need to be a &quot;feminist&quot; artist. And so the next question to be raised: do we need feminist art, or has it historicized itself to the point that it is no longer relevant in a contemporary way?

Lastly, I would like to address the question of the archive as art, or, as it were, art as archive. I agree with Historiann that from an aesthetic point of view, the work of art as archive (the Suzanne Lacy and the Andrea Bowers abortion rights tribute) is disappointing. And as an emerging artist with an academic background who cares deeply about the aesthetic experience (and gets roundly criticized for being &quot;too formal&quot;), I was gratified to hear her critique. But let me put another spin on this issue, one that could make things more interesting. There is actually a movement in contemporary art called &quot;archive art&quot; (in fact, there is currently a show in NYC--curated by faculty here at SFAI--called Archive Fever). The archive is now considered an artistic medium with its own integrity (see the catologue Deep Storage for an exhaustive look at the genre). Now if we take this thought and combine it with the current trend towards interdisciplinarity, then there could be exciting collaborative possibilities for artists and historians in making public art. There is lots of collaboration between artists and scientists in the bioart movement, as there is between artists and techies in new media. Perhaps this somewhat disappointing collapse between art and archive could lead to something fresh? 

And finally, I do want to say something about the Suzanne Lacy archive piece, namely that, although the boxes of files are displayed prominently (and aesthetically) amongst the videos, the boxes are taped shut. I was actually admonished by a monitor for touching the boxes. I found this lack of access annoying, and I think it undermines the integrity of the piece. Thought I&#039;d offer that up for thought as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, now, where to begin? Sorry for the late post, but I am on the west coast and a busy, busy girl. First, the comparison to the Yale student&#8217;s work and Carolee Schneeman&#8217;s Interior Scroll is wrong headed. Yes, Schneeman pushed the envelope big time (I remember showing the video in a women&#8217;s studies class a few years ago; the queer students cheered, while the heteros cringed). But Schneeman&#8217;s act of pulling a scroll full of poetic wisdom out of her vagina is a gesture, albeit radical and confrontational, that coherently executed the impulse of a woman to identify with her body and offer this gesture to an audience. I love Interior Scroll, for so many reasons, but most of all because she transformed what was/is hidden and considered shameful (the female body) and made it brazenly beautiful, and even holy. Next to Schneeman&#8217;s work, the Yale performance seems immature and frivolous, and again, lacking in conceptual coherence. Just because two pieces provoked similar public scorn and outrage does not mean that they are on par with one another. That is a flaw in logic.</p>
<p>Now back to the relation between the Yerba Buena&#8217;s Women, Art, and Politics and WACK. To me the difference in quality of these two exhibits has to do with how they framed themselves. WACK is specifically about early feminist art (1965-80) and so has contextualized itself and the representative art as belonging to a particular time in history and responding to that time in historical ways. The Yerba Buena show, covering art from the 70s to the present, is simply all over the place and lacks clear definition (just consider the title: women, art, and politics. Can one get more broad than that?). Perhaps if it were called Feminist Political Art and Its Legacy, it would make more sense (although it would still not be all that impressive). One could say that WACK presents art that very specifically and urgently responded to particular material conditions&#8211;the lack of support for women art students and artists, as well as the social issues all feminists were battling with at the time. The question might then be asked: what material conditions are contemporary feminist artists faced with today? What are they battling? Is the battle different? Is there even a battle? As an aside, the younger women in my studio class did not identify with the exhibit at all and do not feel the need to be a &#8220;feminist&#8221; artist. And so the next question to be raised: do we need feminist art, or has it historicized itself to the point that it is no longer relevant in a contemporary way?</p>
<p>Lastly, I would like to address the question of the archive as art, or, as it were, art as archive. I agree with Historiann that from an aesthetic point of view, the work of art as archive (the Suzanne Lacy and the Andrea Bowers abortion rights tribute) is disappointing. And as an emerging artist with an academic background who cares deeply about the aesthetic experience (and gets roundly criticized for being &#8220;too formal&#8221;), I was gratified to hear her critique. But let me put another spin on this issue, one that could make things more interesting. There is actually a movement in contemporary art called &#8220;archive art&#8221; (in fact, there is currently a show in NYC&#8211;curated by faculty here at SFAI&#8211;called Archive Fever). The archive is now considered an artistic medium with its own integrity (see the catologue Deep Storage for an exhaustive look at the genre). Now if we take this thought and combine it with the current trend towards interdisciplinarity, then there could be exciting collaborative possibilities for artists and historians in making public art. There is lots of collaboration between artists and scientists in the bioart movement, as there is between artists and techies in new media. Perhaps this somewhat disappointing collapse between art and archive could lead to something fresh? </p>
<p>And finally, I do want to say something about the Suzanne Lacy archive piece, namely that, although the boxes of files are displayed prominently (and aesthetically) amongst the videos, the boxes are taped shut. I was actually admonished by a monitor for touching the boxes. I found this lack of access annoying, and I think it undermines the integrity of the piece. Thought I&#8217;d offer that up for thought as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7347</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7347</guid>
		<description>Well I suppose I can accept SF&#039;s explanation for the logic behind this attempt. And I think SF says it best when as you suggested she/he points out &quot;The Yale student’s piece fails both as an art and as a political piece because it is about spectacle for the sake of spectacle and in this way, absolutely trivializes both the issue of having control over one’s own body as well as the issue of life.&quot;
Maybe I&#039;m not as open-minded as I thought, but this whole art projects still befuddles me as utterly bizarro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I suppose I can accept SF&#8217;s explanation for the logic behind this attempt. And I think SF says it best when as you suggested she/he points out &#8220;The Yale student’s piece fails both as an art and as a political piece because it is about spectacle for the sake of spectacle and in this way, absolutely trivializes both the issue of having control over one’s own body as well as the issue of life.&#8221;<br />
Maybe I&#8217;m not as open-minded as I thought, but this whole art projects still befuddles me as utterly bizarro.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7344</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7344</guid>
		<description>Yes, Mary--good point.  But, perhaps (as Said Friend suggested) that was in fact the goal of her art?  As Said Friend said, &quot;it is about performance, endurance, the anti-aesthetic (beauty has become passe). It is also very much about cleverness and spectacle,&quot; although SF in the end judges it a failure both as art and as politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Mary&#8211;good point.  But, perhaps (as Said Friend suggested) that was in fact the goal of her art?  As Said Friend said, &#8220;it is about performance, endurance, the anti-aesthetic (beauty has become passe). It is also very much about cleverness and spectacle,&#8221; although SF in the end judges it a failure both as art and as politics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7341</guid>
		<description>I guess I should clarify, I was thinking along the lines of what Nicole was saying about &quot;pro-life nutters who will happily use this against us who are pro-choice.&quot; It seems like that is all this young woman really accomplished---getting some conservative nut on FOXnews to call her a serial killer or whatever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I should clarify, I was thinking along the lines of what Nicole was saying about &#8220;pro-life nutters who will happily use this against us who are pro-choice.&#8221; It seems like that is all this young woman really accomplished&#8212;getting some conservative nut on FOXnews to call her a serial killer or whatever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7337</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7337</guid>
		<description>Well, I had thought that &quot;the standards and expectations for public history are different than creative work,&quot; until I saw that exhibition!  This is the issue that I&#039;m raising, KC, which is that I had thought that these were apples and oranges, and the exhibition I saw seriously challenged that notion, and I didn&#039;t really see the creativity or artistry I expected to find in a fine arts gallery.  That is the point of this post.

Unfortunately, the Yerba Buena center website doesn&#039;t have any photos of the installations I describe, which might help make my point clearer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I had thought that &#8220;the standards and expectations for public history are different than creative work,&#8221; until I saw that exhibition!  This is the issue that I&#8217;m raising, KC, which is that I had thought that these were apples and oranges, and the exhibition I saw seriously challenged that notion, and I didn&#8217;t really see the creativity or artistry I expected to find in a fine arts gallery.  That is the point of this post.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the Yerba Buena center website doesn&#8217;t have any photos of the installations I describe, which might help make my point clearer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Knitting Clio</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7333</link>
		<dc:creator>Knitting Clio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7333</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re comparing apples and oranges here.  The standards and expectations for public history are different than creative work, I think.  Perhaps you could have delved further into why the &#039;zines were chained to the table -- was this for security reason, or is this part of the artwork itself?  Why are the archive boxes interspersed with video screens?  These are probably aesthetic choices.  Perhaps they are explained in the exhibition catalog.

I&#039;m not an expert in art history either but as I understand it, one of the goals of modernism (by which I mean the Impressionists onward) has been to push the boundaries of what is considered &quot;fine art&quot; and to take viewers outside their comfort zone and make them think.  After all, Cezanne&#039;s motto was &quot;burn the Louvre,&quot; i.e. let&#039;s shake up the art world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re comparing apples and oranges here.  The standards and expectations for public history are different than creative work, I think.  Perhaps you could have delved further into why the &#8216;zines were chained to the table &#8212; was this for security reason, or is this part of the artwork itself?  Why are the archive boxes interspersed with video screens?  These are probably aesthetic choices.  Perhaps they are explained in the exhibition catalog.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not an expert in art history either but as I understand it, one of the goals of modernism (by which I mean the Impressionists onward) has been to push the boundaries of what is considered &#8220;fine art&#8221; and to take viewers outside their comfort zone and make them think.  After all, Cezanne&#8217;s motto was &#8220;burn the Louvre,&#8221; i.e. let&#8217;s shake up the art world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7330</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7330</guid>
		<description>And, Roxie:  they let dogs into the WACK! show?  That&#039;s wack!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, Roxie:  they let dogs into the WACK! show?  That&#8217;s wack!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7329</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7329</guid>
		<description>Mary--I understand your distaste for Shvarts&#039;s spectacle, but I don&#039;t think &quot;she furthers the myth that women cannot and should not have control over their own bodies.&quot;  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a myth!  I think it&#039;s a fact, and the fact is that in a free society, people are going to do things with their bodies that we disagree with.  For example, Historiann has real ethical problems with elective plastic surgery--but then, not everyone is as blessed with perfection of face and figure like me!  (Kidding!)

Said Friend--thanks for weighing in and providing more depth and perspective for my comments.  I agree with you about the lack of discernment in contemporary art--but then, you as a student are grappling with how to produce worthy art in a context in which judgment is precluded?  (Except it&#039;s not, and faculty still have power over your future, as in every other academic environment.) 

KC--I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s not art--but one of the things no one in the comments thread has engaged is my question about public history.  To me, it seemed that many of the installations could have been done by any reasonably clever (or even not-so-clever) person with an archives and museum studies background.  This exhibition raised questions in my mind about the boundaries between fine art and public history.  But, as Said Friend suggested, if there&#039;s no discernment and it&#039;s all good, then I guess there&#039;s our answer!  While I think this is potentially exciting, I also wonder what this means for the future of art.

The work at WACK, and Judy Chicago&#039;s work, as I understand it, was connected to and grew out of a specific art historical context.  I&#039;m just wondering what kind of art historical context this new work comes from--since it seems so closely related to recent history rather than art history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary&#8211;I understand your distaste for Shvarts&#8217;s spectacle, but I don&#8217;t think &#8220;she furthers the myth that women cannot and should not have control over their own bodies.&#8221;  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a myth!  I think it&#8217;s a fact, and the fact is that in a free society, people are going to do things with their bodies that we disagree with.  For example, Historiann has real ethical problems with elective plastic surgery&#8211;but then, not everyone is as blessed with perfection of face and figure like me!  (Kidding!)</p>
<p>Said Friend&#8211;thanks for weighing in and providing more depth and perspective for my comments.  I agree with you about the lack of discernment in contemporary art&#8211;but then, you as a student are grappling with how to produce worthy art in a context in which judgment is precluded?  (Except it&#8217;s not, and faculty still have power over your future, as in every other academic environment.) </p>
<p>KC&#8211;I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s not art&#8211;but one of the things no one in the comments thread has engaged is my question about public history.  To me, it seemed that many of the installations could have been done by any reasonably clever (or even not-so-clever) person with an archives and museum studies background.  This exhibition raised questions in my mind about the boundaries between fine art and public history.  But, as Said Friend suggested, if there&#8217;s no discernment and it&#8217;s all good, then I guess there&#8217;s our answer!  While I think this is potentially exciting, I also wonder what this means for the future of art.</p>
<p>The work at WACK, and Judy Chicago&#8217;s work, as I understand it, was connected to and grew out of a specific art historical context.  I&#8217;m just wondering what kind of art historical context this new work comes from&#8211;since it seems so closely related to recent history rather than art history.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roxie</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/21/feminist-art-feminist-history-and-public-history-friction-in-the-archives/comment-page-1/#comment-7324</link>
		<dc:creator>Roxie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=264#comment-7324</guid>
		<description>WACK! is worth a trip to New York.  It will make you want to roar, in a good way.  I blogged about it back in October, when the moms saw it in Washington, though with nothing like the detail in Tenured Radical&#039;s marvelous post.  My humble contribution is here:  http://roxies-world.blogspot.com/2007/10/chicks-rule.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WACK! is worth a trip to New York.  It will make you want to roar, in a good way.  I blogged about it back in October, when the moms saw it in Washington, though with nothing like the detail in Tenured Radical&#8217;s marvelous post.  My humble contribution is here:  <a href="http://roxies-world.blogspot.com/2007/10/chicks-rule.html" rel="nofollow">http://roxies-world.blogspot.com/2007/10/chicks-rule.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
