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	<title>Comments on: A front-row seat at the &#8220;Compassion Forum&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/</link>
	<description>History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present</description>
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		<title>By: Rad readr</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6592</link>
		<dc:creator>Rad readr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6592</guid>
		<description>I thought the compassion forum was hilarious. Hillary dovetailed into abstractions most of the time. She couldn&#039;t really answer when she has felt &quot;the holy spirit,&quot; even though apparently she said she has felt it. Obama was a little more thoughtful and answered some questions with more depth. But he stumbled on the abortion issue in a way that she did not. 

Interestingly, I thought the compassionate forumites did bring up issues that others usually do not: AIDS in Africa, eradicating poverty, Darfur. Given the historical connections of religious missions and imperialism, it&#039;s no surprise that mega churches want to help the little brown ones oveseas. Of course, it would be nice if we went international in another way: abortion rights. How many countries in the Americas (to think locally) even have legal abortions? The right wingers have managed to create a fight in the US over something that is guaranteed by Roe v. Wade and, as a result, I wonder if abortion rights has remained largely a domestic debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the compassion forum was hilarious. Hillary dovetailed into abstractions most of the time. She couldn&#8217;t really answer when she has felt &#8220;the holy spirit,&#8221; even though apparently she said she has felt it. Obama was a little more thoughtful and answered some questions with more depth. But he stumbled on the abortion issue in a way that she did not. </p>
<p>Interestingly, I thought the compassionate forumites did bring up issues that others usually do not: AIDS in Africa, eradicating poverty, Darfur. Given the historical connections of religious missions and imperialism, it&#8217;s no surprise that mega churches want to help the little brown ones oveseas. Of course, it would be nice if we went international in another way: abortion rights. How many countries in the Americas (to think locally) even have legal abortions? The right wingers have managed to create a fight in the US over something that is guaranteed by Roe v. Wade and, as a result, I wonder if abortion rights has remained largely a domestic debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6576</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6576</guid>
		<description>David is right- no one dreams of the day that they too can have an abortion.  I find these questions useless of candidates, to a degree, unless they are followed up by more substantial questions.  Is it a surprise that Clinton is Pro-Choice?  She had an interesting way of putting it but I&#039;m not surprised.  What I&#039;d like to know is what she feels our moral responsibility is, as a community, to those women who find themselves in situations where an abortion seems like the only way.  More so, what is our community responsibility to folks BEFORE an abortion seems like the only way?  But- I&#039;m not the target audience for these types of forums so my agenda doesn&#039;t influence the types of questions that are asked.  
I do think it would be great for a candidate to be really blunt at these kinds of sessions. Forget black or female president- could America handle an atheist in the Presidency?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David is right- no one dreams of the day that they too can have an abortion.  I find these questions useless of candidates, to a degree, unless they are followed up by more substantial questions.  Is it a surprise that Clinton is Pro-Choice?  She had an interesting way of putting it but I&#8217;m not surprised.  What I&#8217;d like to know is what she feels our moral responsibility is, as a community, to those women who find themselves in situations where an abortion seems like the only way.  More so, what is our community responsibility to folks BEFORE an abortion seems like the only way?  But- I&#8217;m not the target audience for these types of forums so my agenda doesn&#8217;t influence the types of questions that are asked.<br />
I do think it would be great for a candidate to be really blunt at these kinds of sessions. Forget black or female president- could America handle an atheist in the Presidency?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6528</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6528</guid>
		<description>Indyanna,

That&#039;s an interesting possibility, although I should say that, having attended Catholic schools growing up for 12 years, and being exposed to tremendous amounts of abstinence education, the practice never really took hold, at least for the people I knew. The religion and the schools could deemphasize contraception all they wanted, but we knew better. 

The resistance to contraception is one of the main reasons that I can&#039;t take the pro-life movement seriously. If these people supported policies that were most likely to reduce the number of abortions (whether legal or illegal), I think there would be more common ground to tackle abortion as a social issue, rather than a moral one. Nobody looks forward to getting an abortion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indyanna,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an interesting possibility, although I should say that, having attended Catholic schools growing up for 12 years, and being exposed to tremendous amounts of abstinence education, the practice never really took hold, at least for the people I knew. The religion and the schools could deemphasize contraception all they wanted, but we knew better. </p>
<p>The resistance to contraception is one of the main reasons that I can&#8217;t take the pro-life movement seriously. If these people supported policies that were most likely to reduce the number of abortions (whether legal or illegal), I think there would be more common ground to tackle abortion as a social issue, rather than a moral one. Nobody looks forward to getting an abortion.</p>
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		<title>By: Indyanna</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6525</link>
		<dc:creator>Indyanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6525</guid>
		<description>One of the things that may have shaped the imaginations of some of the undergraduates at Messiah--generationally-speaking--is the &quot;abstinence&quot; movement.  Which, whatever its origins in a 1980s Nancy Reaganite &quot;just-say-no&quot; sensibility, and its embrace by the religious right, must have gotten some broader cultural traction, judging by a recent news piece I read about an &quot;abstinence&quot; peer-group at Harvard.  So perhaps some meaningful fraction of the audience Fea reports on may think this question wouldn&#039;t be likely to intrude on their own (at least pre-marital) lives, and thus that it can be considered categorically, rather than in the nuanced way described in the body of the post for 30/40ish women. Just a guess.

I&#039;m looking forward to reading Fea&#039;s book.  I attended a seminar he gave some years back as a dissertator and it&#039;s a very interesting project.  Plus, how often do you get something set in the deepest wilds of early New Jersey?  A famous early American historian at an unnamed college in Providence, Rhode Island, once counseled an advisee that no one writing a dissertation set in New Jersey would ever get a job or eat lunch in that profession.  Seemingly an exaggeration, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things that may have shaped the imaginations of some of the undergraduates at Messiah&#8211;generationally-speaking&#8211;is the &#8220;abstinence&#8221; movement.  Which, whatever its origins in a 1980s Nancy Reaganite &#8220;just-say-no&#8221; sensibility, and its embrace by the religious right, must have gotten some broader cultural traction, judging by a recent news piece I read about an &#8220;abstinence&#8221; peer-group at Harvard.  So perhaps some meaningful fraction of the audience Fea reports on may think this question wouldn&#8217;t be likely to intrude on their own (at least pre-marital) lives, and thus that it can be considered categorically, rather than in the nuanced way described in the body of the post for 30/40ish women. Just a guess.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to reading Fea&#8217;s book.  I attended a seminar he gave some years back as a dissertator and it&#8217;s a very interesting project.  Plus, how often do you get something set in the deepest wilds of early New Jersey?  A famous early American historian at an unnamed college in Providence, Rhode Island, once counseled an advisee that no one writing a dissertation set in New Jersey would ever get a job or eat lunch in that profession.  Seemingly an exaggeration, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6524</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6524</guid>
		<description>David, I think that&#039;s right.  I&#039;m a little older than you, but I was still a preschooler when Roe v. Wade was decided, so I have no real memory of life before Roe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I think that&#8217;s right.  I&#8217;m a little older than you, but I was still a preschooler when Roe v. Wade was decided, so I have no real memory of life before Roe.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6495</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6495</guid>
		<description>Nice, perceptive post, Historiann. It was nice to read something that dovetailed with the campaign that had nothing to do with &quot;bitterness.&quot; 

My take on the abortion and generation issue is that the pro life movement has been extremely effective in shaping the argument for my generation. We grew up in the 1980s, when anti-abortion rhetoric seemed to be everywhere, but we weren&#039;t around in the 70s when lack of access to abortions was a political issue. So we&#039;ve really only seen one side of the issue, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice, perceptive post, Historiann. It was nice to read something that dovetailed with the campaign that had nothing to do with &#8220;bitterness.&#8221; </p>
<p>My take on the abortion and generation issue is that the pro life movement has been extremely effective in shaping the argument for my generation. We grew up in the 1980s, when anti-abortion rhetoric seemed to be everywhere, but we weren&#8217;t around in the 70s when lack of access to abortions was a political issue. So we&#8217;ve really only seen one side of the issue, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6467</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6467</guid>
		<description>James--I can agree with that definition of life!  I just thoroughly resent the notion that a being that needs my body to live has interests that somehow supercede mine.  And, I truly resent people who have abortions and still align themselves as &quot;pro-life.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James&#8211;I can agree with that definition of life!  I just thoroughly resent the notion that a being that needs my body to live has interests that somehow supercede mine.  And, I truly resent people who have abortions and still align themselves as &#8220;pro-life.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6461</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6461</guid>
		<description>Life is breath, according to the Bible (Genesis 1:1). Bible based pro-life politics is not inherently anti-abortion, despite what most Americans have learned from pastors and pundits that also support the death penalty and a religious war in the Middle East.

Maybe I should keep my mouth shut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Life is breath, according to the Bible (Genesis 1:1). Bible based pro-life politics is not inherently anti-abortion, despite what most Americans have learned from pastors and pundits that also support the death penalty and a religious war in the Middle East.</p>
<p>Maybe I should keep my mouth shut.</p>
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		<title>By: Historiann</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6459</link>
		<dc:creator>Historiann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6459</guid>
		<description>Hi ej--thanks for the front-line report on the conception initiative.  For people who don&#039;t live in Colorado, here&#039;s the ballot initiative defining life as beginning at conception:

http://www.campusprogress.org/fieldreport/2406/complications-at-conception

Of course, the signature-solicitor is lying when she says that this isn&#039;t about Roe v. Wade.  But, in my experience, people working to get signatures will say anything to get you to sign.  (Many of them are paid by the signature, they&#039;re not even volunteers, so I&#039;m doubtful about her claim that she&#039;s working to avenge her dead friend.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ej&#8211;thanks for the front-line report on the conception initiative.  For people who don&#8217;t live in Colorado, here&#8217;s the ballot initiative defining life as beginning at conception:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.campusprogress.org/fieldreport/2406/complications-at-conception" rel="nofollow">http://www.campusprogress.org/fieldreport/2406/complications-at-conception</a></p>
<p>Of course, the signature-solicitor is lying when she says that this isn&#8217;t about Roe v. Wade.  But, in my experience, people working to get signatures will say anything to get you to sign.  (Many of them are paid by the signature, they&#8217;re not even volunteers, so I&#8217;m doubtful about her claim that she&#8217;s working to avenge her dead friend.)</p>
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		<title>By: ej</title>
		<link>http://www.historiann.com/2008/04/15/a-front-row-seat-at-the-compassion-forum/comment-page-1/#comment-6458</link>
		<dc:creator>ej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historiann.com/?p=253#comment-6458</guid>
		<description>I also wonder if these younger women, who have never been pregnant, have considered that having an abortion may not just involve an unwanted pregnancy, but may become an issue in a wanted pregnancy that proves extremely problematic. I have to think that with all our advances in medical technology, the ability to diagnose problems with a fetus very early on will present women with difficult choices that they may not anticipate yet. I&#039;m sure that they&#039;ll want to have the option of terminating a pregnancy, which they may not consider the same as abortion.  Yet overturn Roe v. Wade, and these options may no longer be available.

On a related note, I was accosted outside of King Soopers last week by a woman attempting to get new legislation on the ballot to say that life begins at conception. Her rationale was that her friend was murdered when pregnant and she only &quot;counted&quot; for one life. When I refused on the ground that I was pro-choice, she said that had nothing to do with her mission. Genuine confusion or an attempt to undermine abortion rights, I don&#039;t know, but disturbing nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wonder if these younger women, who have never been pregnant, have considered that having an abortion may not just involve an unwanted pregnancy, but may become an issue in a wanted pregnancy that proves extremely problematic. I have to think that with all our advances in medical technology, the ability to diagnose problems with a fetus very early on will present women with difficult choices that they may not anticipate yet. I&#8217;m sure that they&#8217;ll want to have the option of terminating a pregnancy, which they may not consider the same as abortion.  Yet overturn Roe v. Wade, and these options may no longer be available.</p>
<p>On a related note, I was accosted outside of King Soopers last week by a woman attempting to get new legislation on the ballot to say that life begins at conception. Her rationale was that her friend was murdered when pregnant and she only &#8220;counted&#8221; for one life. When I refused on the ground that I was pro-choice, she said that had nothing to do with her mission. Genuine confusion or an attempt to undermine abortion rights, I don&#8217;t know, but disturbing nonetheless.</p>
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