Comments on: What is wrong with Maureen Dowd? http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/ History and sexual politics, 1492 to the present Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:28:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: I need to drop out. « The Edge of the American West http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-2029 I need to drop out. « The Edge of the American West Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:07:58 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-2029 [...] spent a good chunk of yesterday arguing with Historiann. And then, I spent much of last night arguing nearly the exact opposite positions with people at [...] [...] spent a good chunk of yesterday arguing with Historiann. And then, I spent much of last night arguing nearly the exact opposite positions with people at [...]

]]> By: Ari http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1908 Ari Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:56:14 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1908 Wait, I said it was funny. And that's what I thought. Wait, I said it was funny. And that’s what I thought.

]]> By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1907 Historiann Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:52:38 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1907 Oh, Ari! Lighten up--it was a funny! And I always thought it was us *feminists* who didn't have a sense of humor... Oh, Ari! Lighten up–it was a funny! And I always thought it was us *feminists* who didn’t have a sense of humor…

]]> By: Ari http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1906 Ari Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:42:22 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1906 That is quite funny. But it does ignore this: http://www.newsweek.com/id/118240/output/print That is quite funny. But it does ignore this:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/118240/output/print

]]> By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1900 Historiann Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:17:10 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1900 If anyone out there is following this thread, this may crack you up or piss you off, depending: http://wonkette.com/363235/possible-clinton-ohio-victory-offends-internet If anyone out there is following this thread, this may crack you up or piss you off, depending:

http://wonkette.com/363235/possible-clinton-ohio-victory-offends-internet

]]> By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1888 Historiann Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:45:46 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1888 Hope! Keep hope alive, Ari! Of course I can't personally arrange for that, much as I'd like to, but we'll see. Hope! Keep hope alive, Ari! Of course I can’t personally arrange for that, much as I’d like to, but we’ll see.

]]> By: Ari http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1885 Ari Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:32:00 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1885 If you can arrange for do-over in MI and FL, I'll agree to campaign for Hillary from this point forward. Seriously, I'd love to see it. But it's not going to happen. If you can arrange for do-over in MI and FL, I’ll agree to campaign for Hillary from this point forward. Seriously, I’d love to see it. But it’s not going to happen.

]]> By: Historiann http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1884 Historiann Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:23:47 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1884 Ari--I don't see D) as dirty pool--as you've said earlier in the thread, them's the rules we've got, and if Clinton can win in big swing states like PA and OH, that's a compelling argument for the Superdelegates to swing their vote to Clinton. Even if we put aside the fact that caucuses are undemocratic and unrepresentative of the Democratic electorate--you leave out option E) a do-over in Florida and Michigan. (See the comments thread in the post above, esp. GayProf's comments on the disenfranchisement of Michigan voters.) I would strongly support that, rather than the seating of the Clinton delegates from those two states, which would indeed be unfair. BEW--thanks for your comments, although you're an admitted partisan! I agree with you that today's election results could portend a change, but we'll see... Ari–I don’t see D) as dirty pool–as you’ve said earlier in the thread, them’s the rules we’ve got, and if Clinton can win in big swing states like PA and OH, that’s a compelling argument for the Superdelegates to swing their vote to Clinton. Even if we put aside the fact that caucuses are undemocratic and unrepresentative of the Democratic electorate–you leave out option E) a do-over in Florida and Michigan. (See the comments thread in the post above, esp. GayProf’s comments on the disenfranchisement of Michigan voters.) I would strongly support that, rather than the seating of the Clinton delegates from those two states, which would indeed be unfair.

BEW–thanks for your comments, although you’re an admitted partisan! I agree with you that today’s election results could portend a change, but we’ll see…

]]> By: BEW http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1882 BEW Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:13:10 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1882 Historiann, I liked your comments about MoDo and have enjoyed your running commentary with Ari. FWIW, I think you have the better argument since I am a Clinton supporter. Let the people vote. I believe that Barack has outspent Hillary in Ohio 2 to 1 and in Tx 3 to 1. Both states will have 2 weeks of the up close and personal with Barack. In the previous primaries, the operating meme was that the more the peole got to know Barack, the more they like him and vote for him. We will see if that holds. If Barack doesn't beat her in both states, I think it shows the momentum has changed. Neither candidate has enough delegates to win the nomination outright. The Superdelegates will have to decide. Those are the rules. There are no guidelines on how they should pick the winner. They are free to choose. It does sound to me a little boorish, and perhaps even thuggish, that the Barack internet supporters threaten to split the party or stay home if they don't get their way. Historiann,

I liked your comments about MoDo and have enjoyed your running commentary with Ari. FWIW, I think you have the better argument since I am a Clinton supporter.

Let the people vote. I believe that Barack has outspent Hillary in Ohio 2 to 1 and in Tx 3 to 1. Both states will have 2 weeks of the up close and personal with Barack. In the previous primaries, the operating meme was that the more the peole got to know Barack, the more they like him and vote for him. We will see if that holds.

If Barack doesn’t beat her in both states, I think it shows the momentum has changed.

Neither candidate has enough delegates to win the nomination outright. The Superdelegates will have to decide. Those are the rules. There are no guidelines on how they should pick the winner. They are free to choose.

It does sound to me a little boorish, and perhaps even thuggish, that the Barack internet supporters threaten to split the party or stay home if they don’t get their way.

]]> By: Ari http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1881 Ari Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:08:36 +0000 http://www.historiann.com/2008/03/02/what-is-wrong-with-maureen-dowd/#comment-1881 Historiann, let me try this one more time. I'm not saying that we should call the game when my team is ahead. Or that we should pick the daffodils just as they're poking their little heads from the still-frozen ground. And I'm not even saying that Hillary can't keep running, if that's what she wants to do. But I AM saying -- sorry, here we go again -- that she can't win without: A) seating the MI or FL delegates B) overturning the results of one of the primaries already in the books C) getting the superdelegates to back her even though she'll be behind, by a considerable margin, in the pledged delegate count come the convention D) some combination of A, B, and C. How are you not hearing me say that? So, you can keep calling me silly. Or saying that I'm rending my garments. Or getting angry. But none that is true. I do, though, think you're not willing to see that the only way Hillary wins is to play dirty. Because my argument is based on math. I can understand not liking it. I can understand thinking that Obama's lead has been achieved through less democratic strategy. And I can understand saying that Hillary <em>can</em> win. But I can't understand pretending that such a win won't carry with it some costs for the party and the country. Historiann, let me try this one more time. I’m not saying that we should call the game when my team is ahead. Or that we should pick the daffodils just as they’re poking their little heads from the still-frozen ground. And I’m not even saying that Hillary can’t keep running, if that’s what she wants to do.

But I AM saying — sorry, here we go again — that she can’t win without: A) seating the MI or FL delegates B) overturning the results of one of the primaries already in the books C) getting the superdelegates to back her even though she’ll be behind, by a considerable margin, in the pledged delegate count come the convention D) some combination of A, B, and C. How are you not hearing me say that?

So, you can keep calling me silly. Or saying that I’m rending my garments. Or getting angry. But none that is true. I do, though, think you’re not willing to see that the only way Hillary wins is to play dirty. Because my argument is based on math. I can understand not liking it. I can understand thinking that Obama’s lead has been achieved through less democratic strategy. And I can understand saying that Hillary can win. But I can’t understand pretending that such a win won’t carry with it some costs for the party and the country.

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